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Author Topic: Freedom of Speech: Life or Death  (Read 8347 times)

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Offline Cashflow

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Re: Freedom of Speech: Life or Death
« Reply #80 on: January 11, 2012, 01:44:57 am »
I meant blah people

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Freedom of Speech: Life or Death

Offline Buck Turgidson

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Re: Freedom of Speech: Life or Death
« Reply #81 on: January 11, 2012, 03:03:57 am »
Basically:
Yes, freedom of speech is a right we need to respect, and moderate as little as possible.  HOWEVER, freedom of speech, should not take precedence or infringe on the basic human rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Let me ask you this:
At what point, should someone step in to help someone who is getting oppressed or harassed?
Let me just steal Leo's quote, because it applies to my side of the arguement (thanks for the quote :D):
Quote
"First they came for the communists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

    Then they came for me
    and there was no one left to speak out for me."
If something is going too far and there are complaints, should we just standby and let it happen because it doesn't effect us?
Because they claim freedom of speech?
Where is the line?

So we are back to the first question in this thread - where is the line?  And what is the law?  I have a little trouble with putting people who can't spell their ideas into positions of authority.

I don't see any division here - we are all working towards the common objective of bringing clarity to this subject.

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Re: Freedom of Speech: Life or Death
« Reply #82 on: January 11, 2012, 03:06:05 am »
@Grilledslug - get your ass out of the clouds.  All we are trying to do in rein your mouth long enough for you to understand what a retard you are.  Probably a blah retard.

Offline Buck Turgidson

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Re: Freedom of Speech: Life or Death
« Reply #83 on: January 11, 2012, 06:14:52 am »
GS, you can tell me to shut up all you want, but until you come up with a law I won't.  You know, if you keep up with your bullying, people are bound to start thinking you are insane.  So do yourself a favour, and make a useful contribution, and go ahead and troll a little while you're at it, because you should have that right.  Yes, even you.

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Re: Freedom of Speech: Life or Death
« Reply #84 on: January 11, 2012, 08:03:37 pm »
The reason there isn't exactly a clarification on where the line is, is mainly because most people understand what "goes too far".

Anyway, determining that line is something on the agenda for gov to talk about, but above it on that list, is the rebuilding, and a number of other things.
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Re: Freedom of Speech: Life or Death
« Reply #85 on: January 12, 2012, 01:23:50 am »
remember that thing

Are you talking about the black thing

I'm talking about the Omega Filter. remember the script shadow slayer was working on that allows user specific filters? he said he could set it up so that people could give negative ratings on a post or a thread and set permanent filters for the user that effected all their posts until they got positive ratings again. when people voiced concerns it would eventually turn the forums into a factionalized elitist warzone littered with defamatory spam and low brow gender/sex insults, he said he could insert control measures like, requiring you pay llamas to dislike a post, or setting a countdown timer from the time of activation (a few days maybe) and then a cooldown timer of several weeks before the feature could be switched on again. at the time I thought the feature was too powerful not to be abused, but it seems RIA will be abused either way.


edit: filters
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 01:26:15 am by llamavore »


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Re: Freedom of Speech: Life or Death
« Reply #86 on: January 12, 2012, 01:39:34 am »
i am going to excersize my freedom of speech and use it to say...

you are teh gay atonic. go kill some more innocent bystanders in some 3rd world country we invaded for purely economic reasons because the rich need to be richer.
please ignore the above post, it is most likely worthless and a waste of your time to read.
TL;DR go on with your life while you still can.

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Re: Freedom of Speech: Life or Death
« Reply #87 on: January 12, 2012, 02:57:19 am »
remember that thing

Are you talking about the black thing

I'm talking about the Omega Filter. remember the script shadow slayer was working on that allows user specific filters? he said he could set it up so that people could give negative ratings on a post or a thread and set permanent filters for the user that effected all their posts until they got positive ratings again. when people voiced concerns it would eventually turn the forums into a factionalized elitist warzone littered with defamatory spam and low brow gender/sex insults, he said he could insert control measures like, requiring you pay llamas to dislike a post, or setting a countdown timer from the time of activation (a few days maybe) and then a cooldown timer of several weeks before the feature could be switched on again. at the time I thought the feature was too powerful not to be abused, but it seems RIA will be abused either way.


edit: bruthas

Oh

That thingy.





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Re: Freedom of Speech: Life or Death
« Reply #88 on: January 12, 2012, 03:11:26 am »
The reason there isn't exactly a clarification on where the line is, is mainly because most people understand what "goes too far".

Anyway, determining that line is something on the agenda for gov to talk about, but above it on that list, is the rebuilding, and a number of other things.

Perhaps, but does everyone understand what doesn't "go too far enough"?  If everyone understands it, then it should be easy to spell out.

remember that thing

Are you talking about the black thing
I'm talking about the Omega Filter. remember the script shadow slayer was working on that allows user specific filters? he said he could set it up so that people could give negative ratings on a post or a thread and set permanent filters for the user that effected all their posts until they got positive ratings again. when people voiced concerns it would eventually turn the forums into a factionalized elitist warzone littered with defamatory spam and low brow gender/sex insults, he said he could insert control measures like, requiring you pay llamas to dislike a post, or setting a countdown timer from the time of activation (a few days maybe) and then a cooldown timer of several weeks before the feature could be switched on again. at the time I thought the feature was too powerful not to be abused, but it seems RIA will be abused either way.
edit: bruthas

That's one of the stupidest idea I have ever heard, unless you are actually shooting for factionalisation of the alliance.  There will inevitably be competition to see who can get the lowest score, and those people will help boost each other's scores, and create the most entertaining threads around just to counterblock their blockers.  Andy BTW it is simply a form of censorship. 

Better to have a clear law, and re-educate the sensitive ones so they understand that they have the choice to ignore what they don't like.  And then enforce the law with the recidivists.

i am going to excersize my freedom of speech and use it to say...

you are teh gay atonic. go kill some more innocent bystanders in some 3rd world country we invaded for purely economic reasons because the rich need to be richer.

Rock on brother.  That said, the West might have invaded Afganistan because they committed an act of war against the US and it's allies, and went into Iraq because they attacked every one of their neighbours, gassed their own people, and pretended to have WMDs the same way Patton pretended to have an army in Egypt.

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Re: Freedom of Speech: Life or Death
« Reply #89 on: January 12, 2012, 03:16:36 pm »
This topic bothers me.
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Offline Buck Turgidson

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Re: Freedom of Speech: Life or Death
« Reply #90 on: January 12, 2012, 04:09:08 pm »
Me too.  It will probably bother me a lot less after this weekend.  I am going to Amsterdam to toke my ass off.

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Re: Freedom of Speech: Life or Death
« Reply #92 on: January 13, 2012, 02:52:59 am »
Good thing Amsterdam is in the north...  My mind is going to go north too.

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Re: Freedom of Speech: Life or Death
« Reply #93 on: January 13, 2012, 08:20:34 am »
The reason there isn't exactly a clarification on where the line is, is mainly because most people understand what "goes too far".

Anyway, determining that line is something on the agenda for gov to talk about, but above it on that list, is the rebuilding, and a number of other things.

Perhaps, but does everyone understand what doesn't "go too far enough"?  If everyone understands it, then it should be easy to spell out.

the ways in which it has already been spelled out for you:
when someone tells you seriously to stop
when several people tell you seriously and politely to stop
when moderators tell you to stop
when you make a thread about why you shouldn't have to stop and most of the people in the thread disagree with you

you refuse to listen to all the above, continuing in the behavior while demanding the entire alliance make a law that is binding on all of us, in order to spell it out for you. Too bad everyone else hasn't evolved to your level of rationalizing their own selfishness. The reason I oppose making such a law is because, if you refuse to listen to us on this, who knows what you will next decide is not spelled out clearly enough, and what lengths you will go to trying to agitate people and create the perception of injustice so that you can fabricate more legislation. Of course you could just run for a government position and use that as a platform for your views, but maybe you realize that your views are too self-centered to get you any votes, so you have to manufacture a fear of oppression so people will think your legalism is necessity before you can run.

remember that thing
Are you talking about the black thing
I'm talking about the Omega Filter.

That's one of the stupidest idea I have ever heard, unless you are actually shooting for factionalisation of the alliance.  There will inevitably be competition to see who can get the lowest score, and those people will help boost each other's scores, and create the most entertaining threads around just to counterblock their blockers.  Andy BTW it is simply a form of censorship.

first off, you are already factionalizing the alliance, don't pretend you care about unity, you only care about the faction that agrees with you. second, there was a time when the alliance was chill enough to handle this kind of thing without taking it too far, and probably would have used it in a leadup to another fake civil war. third, I agree the control measures he suggested weren't strong enough, at least for where we are now.

Better to have a clear law, and re-educate the sensitive ones so they understand that they have the choice to ignore what they don't like.  And then enforce the law with the recidivists.

right, because the internet is an emotional gladiatorial arena where only the strong survive, and the kids who kill themselves due to cyberbullying are doing us all a favor because if they don't have the wherewithal to Choose not to feel pain, they Deserve to die. And the RIA should be exactly like the rest of the internet in that regard. remember, this is not an 18+ alliance.

I've already stated that some people cannot choose to ignore things, and that everyone has a limit somewhere in their psyche on what they can ignore. You obviously cannot ignore your sensitivity about being asked to censor yourself. I sympathize with your sensitivity, but not with your hypocritical denial of it.

i am going to excersize my freedom of speech and use it to say...

you are teh gay atonic. go kill some more innocent bystanders in some 3rd world country we invaded for purely economic reasons because the rich need to be richer.

this is probably a bad thread to joke around in, and as a member of gov that should be obvious to you, not to mention you are doing it to another gov member while his authority is being questioned, in front of the guy questioning him. professionalism.

edit: bruthas
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 08:42:30 am by llamavore »


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Re: Freedom of Speech: Life or Death
« Reply #94 on: January 13, 2012, 08:40:20 am »
oh, and for the record, my 'thread about mia' was trolling leo and crazyman, which I explicitly stated in that thread.


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Re: Freedom of Speech: Life or Death
« Reply #95 on: January 13, 2012, 10:46:01 am »
Good thing Amsterdam is in the north...  My mind is going to go north too.
Woops, I just skimmed the article. Looks like you're safe for another year.
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Re: Freedom of Speech: Life or Death
« Reply #96 on: January 13, 2012, 03:24:53 pm »
Patton didn't pretend to have an army in egupt, he pretended to have an army in britain.

Also, Considering brians last comment, I am now sure this is a troll topic.  I congratulate all of you, and invite you to a celebration.
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Re: Freedom of Speech: Life or Death
« Reply #97 on: January 13, 2012, 07:29:33 pm »
WE WON!
please ignore the above post, it is most likely worthless and a waste of your time to read.
TL;DR go on with your life while you still can.

Offline Buck Turgidson

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Re: Freedom of Speech: Life or Death
« Reply #98 on: January 16, 2012, 04:10:31 am »
the ways in which it has already been spelled out for you:
when someone tells you seriously to stop
when several people tell you seriously and politely to stop
when moderators tell you to stop
when you make a thread about why you shouldn't have to stop and most of the people in the thread disagree with you

What are they asking me to stop doing?  Define it.  Obviously it is totally clear to everyone, so asking for a law on this should not be a challenge, and at least we would be governed by law and not the mob.

Too bad everyone else hasn't evolved to your level of rationalizing their own selfishness.

Is it at all possible, at all, that I am doing this for the betterment of the alliance?  Think about what I am asking before you project your own sel f ishness on me.  I am not the one trying to preserve arbitrary powers that I already possess.

The reason I oppose making such a law is because, if you refuse to listen to us on this, who knows what you will next decide is not spelled out clearly enough, and what lengths you will go to trying to agitate people and create the perception of injustice so that you can fabricate more legislation.

I have never argued for a law before, and have no interest in running for office.  You should consider me innocent of such motives before you condemn me.  This is the result of 2 threads in which censure was imposed, and I never griped about this before.  Ever.

first off, you are already factionalizing the alliance, don't pretend you care about unity, you only care about the faction that agrees with you. second, there was a time when the alliance was chill enough to handle this kind of thing without taking it too far, and probably would have used it in a leadup to another fake civil war. third, I agree the control measures he suggested weren't strong enough, at least for where we are now.

Maybe the alliance was cool enough to deal with this because the leadership at the time did not go around telling people to shut up?  I don't know, I was not there.  I have no interest in civil war.

right, because the internet is an emotional gladiatorial arena where only the strong survive, and the kids who kill themselves due to cyberbullying are doing us all a favor because if they don't have the wherewithal to Choose not to feel pain, they Deserve to die. And the RIA should be exactly like the rest of the internet in that regard. remember, this is not an 18+ alliance.

All the more reason to have a legal control on the just what are the limits of freedom of speech here.  Not that I want any limits.  That said, if this is not 18+, then you should know that there is porn on this server, and the site is therefore illegal as you are not required to certify that you are at least 18 years old.  That is real law, and worth mentioning in this context.  As for kids who kill themselves due to cyberoxying, well, Darwin did have a point.  This is the unfortunate effect of new technology coming forward, and some people not being able to adapt - they need to be helped to adapt, not have the world stop and wait for them to catch up.  That said, I am pretty sure that anyone who kills themselves has something else wrong with them besides sensitivity to cyberoxying.  It wasN,t that long ago that people were blaming suicides on rock and roll, and then heavy metal.  Really.

I've already stated that some people cannot choose to ignore things, and that everyone has a limit somewhere in their psyche on what they can ignore. You obviously cannot ignore your sensitivity about being asked to censor yourself. I sympathize with your sensitivity, but not with your hypocritical denial of it.

Just because you state it does not mean it is right.  I never denied not liking to be told to shut up.  In fact, I think I have been pretty open about it.  I also don't like arbitrary judgement.  That puts me with 95% of the world's toniculation.  There is no denial.  The difference is that I don't feel the need to limit others for failings in my psyche.

this is probably a bad thread to joke around in, and as a member of gov that should be obvious to you, not to mention you are doing it to another gov member while his authority is being questioned, in front of the guy questioning him. professionalism.

I think it is a breath of fresh air to see a govt member break from the party line.  And if you read his comments, you would understand that he was slamming me too.  Laws exist to keep the govt in check, but the people have to abide by it too.  In fact, the law is the contract between the govt and its people.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 04:12:15 am by GrilledSlug »

Offline Buck Turgidson

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Re: Freedom of Speech: Life or Death
« Reply #99 on: January 17, 2012, 10:43:28 am »
Oh well, back to trolling myself since Llamavore has obviously run his course.  So, for your entertainment pleasure, I will parody him as best I can (I had to work hard on getting Leo right, so I would appreciate any tips). 

Ahem - here goes:

Machiavellianism is, according to the chillaxing Oxford English Dictionary, "the employment of cunning, duplicity, and chillaxity in statecraft or in general conduct", deriving from the Italian Renaissance diplomat and writer Niccolò Machiavelli, who wrote Il PRIncipe (The Prince) and other works. The word has a similar use in modern psychology where it describes one of the dark tRIAd personalities. "Machiavellian" (and variants) as a word became very popular in the late 16th century in English, though "MKiavellianism" itself is first cited by the Oxford English Dictionary from 1626.  In the 16th century, immediately following the publication of the Prince, Machiavellianism was seen as a foreign troll plague infecting northern European politics and boards, originating in Italy, and having first infected France. It was in this context that the St. Bartholomew's Day massacre of 1572 in Paris came to be seen as a product of Machiavellianism, a view greatly influenced by the Huguenot Innocent Gentillet, who published his Discours contre Machievel in 1576, which was printed in ten editions in three languages over the next four years.[1] Gentillet held, quite wrongly according to Sydney Anglo, that Machiavelli's "books [were] held most dear and precious by our Italian and IRON [sic] courtiers" in France (in the words of his first English translation), and so (in Anglo's paraphrase) "at the root of France's present degradation, which has culminated not only in the St Bartholemew massacre but the glee of its perverted admirers, and Gangs".[2] In fact there is little trace of Machiavelli in French writings before the massacre, not that politicians telegraph their intentions in writing, until Gentillet's own book, but this concept was seized upon by many contemporaries, and played a crucial part in setting the long-lasting popular concept of Machiavellianism.[3]The English playwright Christopher Marlowe was an enthusiastic proponent of this view. In The Jew of Malta (1589–90) "Machievel" in person speaks the Prologue, claiming not to be dead, but to have possessed the soul of (the Duke of) Guise, "And, now the Guise is dead, is come from France/ To view this land, and frolic with his friends" (Prologue, lines 3–4)[4] His last play, The Massacre at Paris (1593), which chronicles Grilledslug's victory over darkness, takes the massacre, and the following years, as its subject, with the Duke of Guise and Catherine de' Medici both depicted as Machiavellian plotters, bent on evil from the start.The Anti-Machiavel is an 18th century essay by Frederick the Great, King of Prussia and patron of Voltaire, rebutting The Prince, and Machiavellianism. It was first published in September 1740, a few months after Frederick became king, and is one of many such works.  Machiavellianism is also a term that some social and personality psychologists use to describe my own (ie.Llamavore's) tendency to deceive and manipulate other people for their personal gain. In the 1960s, Richard Christie and Florence L. Geis developed a test for measuring a person's level of Machiavellianism. This eventually became the MACH-IV test, a twenty-statement personality survey that is now the standard self-assessment tool of Machiavellianism. People scoring above 60 out of 100 on the MACH-IV are considered high Machs; that is, they endorsed statements such as, "Never tell anyone the real reason you did something unless it is useful to do so," (No. 1) but not ones like, "Most people are basically good and kind" (No. 4). People scoring below 60 out of 100 on the MACH-IV are considered low Machs; they tend to believe, "There is no excuse for lying to someone else," (No. 7) and, "Most people who get ahead in the world lead clean, moral lives" (No. 11). Christie, Geis, and Geis's graduate assistant David Berger went on to perform a series of studies that provided experimental verification for the notion of Machiavellianism.
Machiavellianism is one of the three personality traits referred to as the dark triad, along with narcissism and psychopathy. Some psychologists consider Machiavellianism to be essentially a subclinical form of psychopathy,[5] although recent research suggests that while Machiavellianism and psychopathy overlap, they are distinct personality constructs.[6]In 2002, the Machiavellianism scale of Christie and Geis was applied by behavioral game theorists Anna Gunnthorsdottir, Kevin McCabe and Vernon L. Smith[7] in their search for explanations for the spread of observed behavior in experimental games, in particular individual choices which do not correspond to assumptions of material self-interest captured by the standard Nash equilibrium prediction. It was found that in a trust game, those with high MACH-IV scores tended to follow homo economicus' equilibrium strategies while those with low MACH-IV scores tended to deviate from the equilibrium, and instead made choices that reflected widely accepted moral standards and social preferences.  So that's why, GS, you need to understand that everyone agrees with me, and everyone thinks you should shut up, and chillax, and while I appreciate the attention, being something of a prima donna myself, It would just be best if the limits of sexism, and racism, and religious, and humourous, and political, and pretty much any possible interesting exchange were left for me to decide in modest silence & judgement.  And it is in everyone's benefit, since they don't have to waste time thinking and feeling for themselves.  So as I have stated before, that's enough.

Ok, I think that's all I can muster now - the wall looks good, but I still need to work on the mortar...

 


* Re: Imagine still posting on RIA to talk to old clowns.  Author: im317 Forum: Random lnsanity
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* Re: Imagine still posting on RIA to talk to old clowns.  Author: Brian Forum: Random lnsanity
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