Morality Question...

[Pterrydactyl]

So, here's the situtation:

My "friend" sort of "cheats" on homework assignments.  For example, we had to interview people, and he just made the whole thing up and got an A on it (everyone got A's but he's pumped that he faked it and did).  Now, historically, he's been good at "fluffing" papers where he does shit for research and just stretches things he already knows out.

My question is, should I continue to let him do this, or should I say something?

One thing that pisses me off, is that he does this, and occasionally gets higher points on some assignments than I do.  I mean, I try actually do the full assignments to get the grades that I do, and it seems that it's under-minded by the fact that he just throws whatever shit he wants into a paper for the same assignment and gets an A.

I guess part of it comes from the fact that he's been "handed" everything pretty much his entire life (in fact, his parents pay his rent), whereas I've worked for everthing I have, so he doesn't really see any reason to not take the easy path.  I just don't understand why some people cheat, in the end, they are only cheating themselves.

However, at the same time, he has expressed that he has no interest in moving up in the world.  For Example I asked him to remove a video he had me tagged in because I was applying for a job (and he did), but he said he would never want a position where they'd take something simple like a video making someone look stupid seriously.


Now, my issue is that I've tried to live by a specific ethos.  Specifically:
Loyalty
Duty
Respect
Selfless service
Honor
Integrity
Personal Courage

And now, I'm conflicted.  I feel it questions my integrity to not say something, but at the same time, it questions my loyalty to my friends to say something (this guy is VERY well liked, and I'd lose about half of my IRL friends, plus be stuck with 2 pissed roommates for 8 more months).

Basically, I'm looking for suggestions on what you guys would do in this situation to guide to to either saying something, or what.

[Croix]

Have a talk with the fellow. I wouldn't want to lose friends over it by say... reporting him, but you could explain your situation to him the way you explained it in your post.

Other than that, I'd say just turn a blind eye to it for the most part, makes life on your end a lot easier, and his grades aren't your grades, you shouldn't compare them.

Bullshitter gonna bullshit.

[Pterrydactyl]

I've tried talking to him, nothing ever seems to sink in.  This isn't the first time something like this has happened.

About 2 years ago, he wrote a program called "Magic Word"  he defends it as a "Remotely launched Secure Screensaver", but basically it's a lockout program. When launched, it stops anything you could try to disable it except typing the password (theres no typebox though).  He got it to over-ride explorer and the task manager so it stays on the screen and you can't see them.  In fact, he "SOMEHOW" got it to ignore the reset button (unless held for 10 seconds).  now, I know generally how he did it, but I'm not going to spend an hour describing the specifics.

Anyway, he put it on the schools network for which we have all the computer locations mapped.

Now, after about a semester of remotly launching it, he made a mistake and it damaged a computer.  They brought Microsoft Special Investigators (I shit you not, they have windbreakers and hats that say MSI in the FBI font) and the started an investigation. Now, I only knew about it, because I was a lab monitor at the time and one of the MSI guys let it slip why they were there.  I passed this info onto my supervisor, because in our department, everyone knew who made the program, and a LOT of people could get in trouble if he used the program while the MSI guys were there.

Eventually, me and a teacher approached him, and tried to impart just how serious of a situtation it was, and he couldn't stop laughing.  He was giggling like a fucking schoolgirl who heard the word "penis".  I wasn't even sure we got through to him.  Luckily, he did eventually say that he understood how bad it was, and stopped triggering the program.

But, my point is, I'm not sure talking to him will yield results, or even do anything.  He seems to take everything as a joke to the point at where we have to ask him if he's being serious when he is serious.

[Croix]

Then he probably won't change, he's one of those types of people who coast through school with good grades, but ultimately it is a mystery as to why it happened.

That said if he blatantly cheats, not through just bullshitting, I would say report him. maybe do it anonymously?

[Pterrydactyl]

Well, he'd never "cheat" like, copy-off someone, or plagerize (though, he has grabbed stuff from the tubes and reworded it).  But the fact that he just writes "charming" papers and gets A's baffles me.

[Mr_Cynic]

Bullshitting is an art, which he is apparently good at.  I am too, though I never use it for papers (only class discussions).  If he's good enough at it to get A's, odds are that if he's reported and then confronted by a teacher, he will be able to bullshit his way out.  Sadly, and I feel weird telling someone older than me this, the world isn't fair in this regard, and if he's good at it he may well get away with it indefinitely.  Talk to people in the business world.  There are people who go through their entire lives never actually doing anything useful, just bullshitting, and no one who can inflict consequences ever catches on.  If he seems to have no conscience about it, talking to him won't change his mind.  You can only wait and see if he gets caught.  If he does, and he asks you for help, then you have an issue.

[Croix]

I agree with everything cynic said, but the end part, the issue

if he asks for help, give it to him, its better than him just bullshitting if he's asking .

[Thunder Strike]

I read the first few lines and from that I think you should just ignore it. Such practices will catch up with him sooner or later. Particularly if he goes to college/uni. No need to nark.

[Fake from State Jarm]

nice acrostic, spells LoyDuRSHInP

that is my contribution to this thread in its entirety.

[Pterrydactyl]

it's LDRSHIP, the core values we were taught in the Army.

[Crazyman93]

I don't expect you to understand this since you were in the Army, but in real life actual work is not nearly as important as the results. So let him keep going.

[Pterrydactyl]

But his results aren't really Results, they are just oxshit...

I guess what bothers me, is not so much the fact he does it, but the fact that "skating" though college seems to be the norm.  I mean, I see tons of people waiting till the last minute and turning in shit projects, when I know they could have done better.  I just never understand the point doing something if your not going to put your best effort into it.


Also, between Army and College, I had other jobs in the real world, and I'd see people get fired left and right for what he does.

[Crazyman93]

Like I said, outside of Military life, work isn't as important as the end results, and I can guess none of your jobs were in the corporate world, because you'd see people get away with a lot there.

[Croix]

it's LDRSHIP, the core values we were taught in the Army.

The core values have the Acronym LDRSHIP

but all the values are for following orders...

[Pterrydactyl]

But... science...

[Mr_Cynic]

I suppose it'd depend on what field he would be entering.  Corporate world, he'd totally get away with it.  Maybe get promoted.  Scientific world (i.e. academia) he'd get shredded.  Liberal arts academia, he's actually on par with most professors (lol liberal arts are just bullshitting).

And no, why help him if he gets caught?  He was a dick, he got caught.  Why aid and abet?

[Brian]

i think this whole thing comes down to one quote from you Pterrydactyl...

One thing that pisses me off, is that he does this, and occasionally gets higher points on some assignments than I do.  I mean, I try actually do the full assignments to get the grades that I do, and it seems that it's under-minded by the fact that he just throws whatever shit he wants into a paper for the same assignment and gets an A.

few things about this though. Why does it matter to you what grades he gets? its not a competition (unless it actually is in which case crush him like an easily crushed thing.) If this is somehow, not the issue you find most disturbing with his actions, what does it matter to you what another person does with their time?

[Crazyman93]

Because anyone who was in the army has a mentality of "They're going to be watching my back so they better work as hard as I do."
Which works in Iraq. Not so much in college.

[Pterrydactyl]

It's not a competition, more that I put effort into everything I do, and then someone walks past with no effort and people talk about how good his stuff is.

he literally bullshitted his way through his research paper for English, talked about how horrible it was, and his teacher wants to submit it to a contest.

And it's not that "There watching my back, so I have to work hard" because when I was a specialist, I did close to ZERO WORK some days.  I just don't understand why someone would be like "I don't try".  And I further don't understand how he can get good grades by shitting out badly written essays...

If I decide to take that teaching position I was offered when I get my BA, I'm gonna make sure that noone skates through, and people actually LEARN something.

[Leo]

If I decide to take that teaching position I was offered when I get my BA, I'm gonna make sure that noone skates through, and people actually LEARN something.

Easier said than done. Many people put more effort into finding ways to avoid work and are fairly clever when it comes to that department.