Freedom of Speech: Life or Death

[Buck Turgidson]

Is this important, and what limits should be placed on it?

I ask because I have noticed a recent trend to lock topics, delete posts...etc because someone gets upset.

I personally don't think any topic is sacred, and offer anyone who gets their panties in a knot a chance to grow, and get over their sensitivity by expressing themselves in raucous debate or (im)mature exchange.  If I ever get baited it gives me cause to pause and reflect on why something bothered me - and how I can master it.  It is exchange of ideas and perspectives that gives birth to common ground, just as the exchange of genetic material gives life.

The other side of the coin, it seems, is that if one person gets upset, the discussion should be censured or stricken from the record.  I have even seen one bully repeatedly tell me and others to shut up rather than just ignoring a particular thread.

Is RIA an alliance of laws, reflected in its constitution, or an alliance that allows schoolyard bullies to run around telling people to shut up, an alliance that allows proven defectors to whine to moderators and get them to do their bidding?

So who is for unrestricted freedom of speech, and who believes there should be restrictions (and please specify what you think they should be)?

[Kenneth Kenstar]

What a troll topic

[Fake from State Jarm]

The Troll Hunter - Official Trailer

[undiscoveredbum]

I'm completely against any form of moderation unless there's illegal content involved. This has it's problems, but I do think it's better than letting mods run around all willy nilly deleting or locking what they please.

[Cashflow]

nigger

[Electric Mango]

I think whatever CZom tells me to think.

[Jenne]

No freedom is absolute.

[Brian]

you are aware of a few things.

A) There is no 'freedom of speech' on the internet, the internet is not a country.

B) The united states bill of rights says the government has to respect freedom of speech. literally "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of [...] or abridging the freedom of speech[...]." a business/person/group can force upon you whatever rules they wish with regards to speech, so long as it is not illegal in some other way, ie racist, child porn etc.

C) The ability to say whatever you please is important, but you should not infringe on another persons right to not be hurt by what you say. And no, there is no was you can possibly not offend everyone. but there is a difference between posting random trolls and posting things that are crafted to make people feel uncomfortable, especially when you go into their thread and do it. Your response will probably be 'its the internet, grow a thicker skin' but why must they? I can see no reason why they should have to, especially when you do not start the trolling etc.

D) It is important for all of us to maintain an atmosphere that is welcoming and inviting to promote friendship and camaraderie here at the RIA. This forum is how most of our CN friends gets to know us better.

[Sniper Joe]

"If I want to be a complete freak and harass people all across the forum whenever they post and derail topics talking about them in a tremendously creepy and annoying fashion then by god who are you to stop me?"

[Buck Turgidson]

"If I want to be a complete freak and harass people all across the forum whenever they post and derail topics talking about them in a tremendously creepy and annoying fashion then by god who are you to stop me?"

You see this is the point - it is an anonymous forum, and there is nothing creepy about it.  People can have fun with the written word in a thread, and it is more about wit, bravado, and humour, in an open display to peers than anything else.  I have yet to see any topic stay on topic, regardless of trolling - it is how a discussion evolves. 

you are aware of a few things.

A) There is no 'freedom of speech' on the internet, the internet is not a country.

B) The united states bill of rights says the government has to respect freedom of speech. literally "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of [...] or abridging the freedom of speech[...]." a business/person/group can force upon you whatever rules they wish with regards to speech, so long as it is not illegal in some other way, ie racist, child porn etc.

C) The ability to say whatever you please is important, but you should not infringe on another persons right to not be hurt by what you say. And no, there is no was you can possibly not offend everyone. but there is a difference between posting random trolls and posting things that are crafted to make people feel uncomfortable, especially when you go into their thread and do it. Your response will probably be 'its the internet, grow a thicker skin' but why must they? I can see no reason why they should have to, especially when you do not start the trolling etc.

D) It is important for all of us to maintain an atmosphere that is welcoming and inviting to promote friendship and camaraderie here at the RIA. This forum is how most of our CN friends gets to know us better.

A) Freedom of speech is an international ideal, and does not exist anywhere except where you as an individual plant the standard.

B) That is an American definition, and the US is not the best example of freedom of speech in the world, but at least it is a systematic one.

C) No one has a "right not to be hurt".  If anything they have a right to become stronger from anything that does not kill them - that is nature.  Think about it for a minute - people get emotional over a few pixels on the screen before them - the power of the written word is undeniable.  Imagine turning that narcissistic hurt into something useful for the community by fighting for your side instead of trying to suppress the other.  It's like a bully in the schoolyard who can't come up with a good comeback so resort to screaming "shut up" and goes out swinging.  Fucking retards.

D) All the more reason not to tell people to shut up.  We should do something to help the dimmer members come up with return fire that can hold water.

No freedom is absolute.

But if you exchange freedom for safety, you will soon find you have neither.

I'm completely against any form of moderation unless there's illegal content involved. This has it's problems, but I do think it's better than letting mods run around all willy nilly deleting or locking what they please.

Agreed.  I would rather have Nazis parading in the streets and making asses out of themselves on Hitler's birthday, than tell them to shut up, and pretend they don't exist.  On that note, do you know it is illegal to display the swastika in any media of any kind anywhere in Germany?

I think whatever CZom tells me to think.

And you will damned well continue to do so.

[Kenneth Kenstar]

GrilledSlug for Tri

[aithne]

The internet shouldn't be a place to become hostile or harass others. People have enough bullshit to deal with IRL without someone like you throwing stinkbombs into their place of relaxation.

And the RIA shouldn't be a place for women to fear because some grilled slug might try to harass them. It's gross enough having to deal with live slugs in the fucking garden, with their slimey trails left all over.. If you weren't already grilled, I'd throw salt on you.

[Gangs]

Post for attention.

[aithne]

Post for attention.

WHAT DO YOU WANT?! :3

[Gangs]

Your two white babies.
Like you promised.
You can keep the purple one.

[aithne]

Your two white babies.
Like you promised.
You can keep the purple one.

I promised no such thing, rumplestiltskin!

[Jenne]

No freedom is absolute.

But if you exchange freedom for safety, you will soon find you have neither.

Perhaps you should quote that rather than try to present it as your own thought.

What makes you think your right to spew bullshit supersedes others rights not to be harassed?  Maybe it's not their right to grow a thicker skin that need to be exercised, but maybe your right to learn how to be a normal functional member of a society who can  actually put someone before themselves.  Your arrogance that your individual rights are above all others is a ridiculous notion which is a lesson best learned now.

Imagine turning that narcissistic hurt into something useful for the community by fighting for your side instead of trying to suppress the other. 

Imaging people not having to?

"If I want to be a complete freak and harass people all across the forum whenever they post and derail topics talking about them in a tremendously creepy and annoying fashion then by god who are you to stop me?"

Invoking the name of god into a discussion about free speech is laughable.  God did not give man the right to free speech.  Man gave that to themselves.  In fact, god explicitly denies the right to unabated free speech. 

[Buck Turgidson]

You know, some ideas really don't need to be quoted - that line is the very definition of common knowledge.

Spewing oxshit supercedes others' "rights" to not be harassed for a simple reason - they can always ignore the troll, and the troll goes away.  It is not like I chase every post made by any individual - I just throw the line in and get a nibble.

This is not about individual rights, it is about the right of members of a community to express themselves openly, unless there is a rule against it.  I have broken no rules, and am the one being oxied (along with the rest of the troll community).

Imaging people not having to?

This would be a dull place indeed if it were the case, with severely reduced opportunities for meaningful dialogue.

You will need to clarify which God you are referring to - I am not sure that every religion's conception of God has explicitly denied free speech.  That said, he/she/it generally is a prick about it - good thing God is becoming obsolete.

The internet shouldn't be a place to become hostile or harass others. People have enough oxshit to deal with IRL without someone like you throwing stinkbombs into their place of relaxation.

And the RIA shouldn't be a place for women to fear because some grilled slug might try to harass them. It's gross enough having to deal with live slugs in the fucking garden, with their slimey trails left all over.. If you weren't already grilled, I'd throw salt on you.

That's a riot - I didn't throw the stinkbombs first you know - have a look at all threads I participate in.  And this is how I relax - if you want to relax with me, participate.

On the point of women, I have only trolled one, and from what I can tell, she is not representative of the whole gender.  She is 1 woman, so chill out.  Trolling her is amusing because she plays along in her own screwed up way - and obviously loves the attention.

And slugs, grilled or not, are sexy.  And indeed better with salt.

[Fake from State Jarm]

This thread is a glorified rationalization for why you shouldn't have to make compromises everyone else makes. The RIA does not require everyone have the same sense of humor or fun, least of all that they all have your sense of humor. The RIA does not require that everyone be capable of complete detachment from the implications of written text directed at them. The RIA does not require that all females subject themselves to ritualistic hazing by people who pretend they are just trolling. These are not written into law because the RIA does not require laws to dictate every spectrum of social interaction: the members moderate themselves to a large degree, as you can see both gangs and leo acted differently when people talked to them about it. This is the reason freedoms exist, when they do exist: because people do not abuse them and they enact laws within themselves so that someone outside of them is not required to. They consider others' point of view and put themselves in their position, using a sort of logical empathy which may be completely unknown to you. It is not always possible to find common ground and often one party is less logical than the other; as was the case with Holy Ruler. I tried to defuse the situation with him but he was unwilling and unable (will and ability are the same in this context) to imagine people using the term Mohammedan in a different way than he assumed. He chose instead to twist the entire situation to fit his paradigm of interpretation, and to slander and wrongly accuse first you and then the entire alliance in order to accommodate his idiocy. Irony of Ironies, you are now doing the same thing to Mia, except it is worse because the majority of human society would perceive your conduct as unacceptable. The world in general cannot and will not ever detach itself completely from the face value of words and expressions. Giving up freedom for safety is bad, yes, so is giving up safety for freedom; people instinctively try to balance the two. Your instincts are broken. The RIA has instinctively avoided behavior as extreme as yours and based on the overwhelming negative response you're getting, it is not likely to change for you.  We don't need an amendment, we don't need to be afraid of mods, we don't need to refute your numerous logical fallacies, we're under no obligation to accept your trolling or justify our intolerance of your intolerance. You think people who can't detach meaning from expression are weak; are you afraid of being weak? Everyone is weak; but not everyone is a coward.

[Gangs]

I resent GS being targetted for the rampant, bigoted hazing against HR, its wrong and unfair to him.















Cause it was all me, i put a lot of thought into my religious insults and anti islam slander, i should be given the credit for the bigotry, not GS, he didn't do any of the fun work :| its heartless plagiarism for him to be given credit for the fruits of my art.
PLAGIARISM I TELL YE!