Jesus was the biggest blasphemer ever

[Shyox]

Well, I disagree with a lot that has been said, but my faith isn't gone from me completely. I'm a different kind of Christian than you guys are, but I still am one. This past week has put some new things in my head, for sure.

[invincible13matt]

what is your faith in now, if you haven't lost it?

[Shyox]

I believe in a higher power. I'm not agnostic, because I still believe in some Christian principles. However, I disagree with a lot of it, and I've been exiled. The Church does not allow for progressive thinking, like mine, because otherwise it would be impossible to control what people believed. It doesn't matter to me whether or not there is an afterlife, I'm following through with my faith because I believe that one man made a tremendous sacrifice. I believe he had some great ideas, but that they're now terribly misconstrewed and aren't doing him justice.

To me, Jesus is just as much a symbol of my faith as he is a person.

[invincible13matt]

*scratches head* but you don't believe in Jesus as Messiah?

[Shyox]

*scratches head* but you don't believe in Jesus as Messiah?

I just don't it matters whether or not he's the messiah.

[invincible13matt]

why not?

[Shyox]

why not?

It's just not the reason I have faith, is all.

[wethepeople]

Then what do you have faith in?

[Shyox]

That a man died as a testament to what he believed in, and was a revolutionary thinker. I also believe that God must have blessed him in some way, and he might even had been God's son. He gave the ultimate sacrifice, when he easily could have started a revolution and become a king. But he didn't. He chose peace, and continued to live his life by a set of good ideas.

[wethepeople]

Thats what we believe, too. Just add one thing: He died for our salvation. Thats really what we believe too, Shy.

[invincible13matt]

and in this case, Shy, it can make an eternity of a difference.

[Ravaged]

All that you're proving is that religion is a blind leap of faith into a giant pool of the unkown... What shy has been saying this ENTIRE time is that NOTHING is supported by hard facts, other then a book that (I agree with him on this) was written by men who said they talked to God.  Keeping that in mind, it is hard to actually come up with any true evidence, so those who believe will go on believing because it is natural to them, and those who choose to question authority will question it... I find arguing with any member of a church utterly pointless, no matter how much logic you throw at them it falls on deaf ears. It is not because they are stupid, or refuse to listen to reason (if you can call it that, it all has to do with point of view) but rather that, when speaking on the topic of religion, none of it can be proven or disproved with the application of knowledge... why?? because religion is literally mysticism and is meant to be unreal, to the point where we could never be able to accomplish such tasks, but in the same sense real enough that it is within the realm of possibility that a being so superior actually exists... I believe in God, I believe he is the answer to the question how... I do not however believe that he bore a son to die for our sins, because it doesn't make sense... Why did he choose that time?? What was so wrong with the world that we needed spiritual cleansing then??  If you look at the world today, we are much worse off then back then, so why not now?? and if not now why not get it out of the way when humans first started to take their first stumbling steps in the evolutionary chain??  I also despise religions for the same fake aspect... The religions are bitter mirrors of each other, each claiming that if you follow the other, you're going to hell, and only they can save you. They are constantly trying to recruit more "followers" and grow more and more powerful and influential, and all their horrors they commit, they hide behind God (the crusades, the witch burnings, bombing of abortion clinics, suicidal bombers, jihads, etc.) and say it is for him.  It has become a mass hypnosis, everyone ignores the word of God, which is right in front of him, and listens to the old man in a dress, and they assume he is leading them correctly... It will be a sad day when someone truly corrupt (I say truly because in respect, all humans are corrupt) takes the reigns as "religious leader" and begins some large scale holy war to eradicate the "philistines," which, if you think about it, doesn't seem that unlikely (all we need is a Hitler type to take control), and you will all follow blindly, because that is what you've been taught. God exists, follow Him blindly. Jesus died for you, follow him blindly.  Your religion represents both, follow it blindly....

[Azural]

and in this case, Shy, it can make an eternity of a difference.

It's not like he can force himself to believe something.

[invincible13matt]

that is true, but my statement still stands.

And Jesus' sacrifice was not just for his time period, but for all who come after him as well. I do not blindly follow, I have been gifted with a scientific mind, and I have examined the evidence, and I have come to a conclusion. Nothing can sway me from my position any longer.

[wethepeople]

"they hide behind God (the crusades, the witch burnings, bombing of abortion clinics, suicidal bombers, jihads, etc.)"

You give me proof that God, not man, supported those times, and I'll agree with you.

[wethepeople]

And to go on, most of your statement is kicking man in the shins. They hide behind God, they do this, they accuse that. Is God doing that? No. "They do not like me because they do not know me." I believe a verse in the Bible is. Now, say you were a business man, right? You have some people who tell others about you. When those people hide behind you, and lie, and kill, and cheat, and break, did you support it? No! It was their own actions. Does the word of Man produce the righteousness of God? In those cases, no. Our walk with God is hardly dictated by the Words of men, so long as they aren't just. I follow God, and his call. Blindly? No. I think everyone needs a Leader--A hero. Jesus is mine, and he has saved me many times in my life. The Crusades, rules and strictness of Man hardly works against my faith, or for it. I believe because it is the logical choice for me. The thoughts of evolution and Godlessness is all a shot in the dark, and a pointless one for me. So, why are we presuming this life is mean't to have a life /without/ someone to love us, and to watch over us, and to protect us again? Why do we not want there to be God? Because people do not know him. They think because tonice Urban II launched the peoples crusade, for instance, that God is violent, but God did not cause that war, tonice Urban II did. The whole Hell thing is indeed in most, if not all, religions. But, if that is the reason you're Christian, you need to get your act back together. If someone starts their lesson on why to follow Jesus on Hell, they need to smack themselves.

[Ravaged]

I wasn't attacking God WTP, which is why I said I believe in him in the very beginning, however, I was attacking religion that people claim to be following by his word... everything there is a slam against organized religion, which I believe ruins faith... and invincible, if you would please enlighten me with your  "scientific mind" and tell me what evidence is actually backed up by fact, not including the bible which is a work of man, not God... and saying that they talked to God really doesn't count, if I wrote a bible and said God told me too, would you follow it, would you even believe me??

[wethepeople]

Thats like asking you to support evolution with books, or math, or science itself. First, prove that its not the Word of God.

[Shyox]

Thats like asking you to support evolution with books, or math, or science itself. First, prove that its not the Word of God.

But you CAN support Evolution with books and Science. @.@

Umm... It was written by men who had in their hands the power to take control of Christianity for years to come. Obviously many of their own ideas are in there.

[cctmsp13]

First, prove that its not the Word of God.

What would it take for me to prove it's not the word of god?  

I can prove parts of the Bible aren't true.  The Bible claims that the sky is a solid firmament with windows in it that angels open and close to make it rain.  Since the development of space travel we can pretty firmly say there is no firmament.  Surely God knows there's no firmament there, so why is it in the Bible?