Random Insanity Alliance Forum, Mark V
Cactuar Zone => Random lnsanity => Topic started by: Holy Ruler on August 21, 2011, 04:39:02 pm
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This is a historic night. Reports say Sayful Islam was captured and Qadafi dead. We shall see.
Best Ramadan and Eid ever!
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The next few days should be interesting and significant for Libya. Hopefully the rebels can secure the city and capture Gaddafi without too much more bloodshed.
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It doesn't matter, they'll inevitably get just as bad, and even if they don't, they'll raise a middle finger to us in thanks for doing all the fucking work.
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And now there are a group of clueless young men with guns and no leadership in sight.
This will end well.
Why the fuck can't we just let them kill each other and stay out of it?
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we are staying out of it. We just helped with the Air Raids because, well, who else has supersonic jet-fighters that can guide bombs through 2 foot wide windows right into the fact of their target?
Oh yea, nobody.
We handed it over to NATO after all the fun was had.
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And now there are a group of clueless young men with guns and no leadership in sight.
This will end well.
Why the fuck can't we just let them kill each other and stay out of it?
A. because jesus won't come back if we let the arabs kill the jews
B. because getting oil at the expense of middle eastern peace is preferable to getting it at the expense of polar bears and sea turtles off our own shores
C. America, fuck yeah, Freedom is the only fuckin way, yeah.
D. Florida
3. Profit!!!
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Do any of you know why action had to be taken by outside sources for libya?
Because in this civil war, both sides were in a stalemate. Problem is, that the dude in charge decided to kill pretty much everyone that wasn't in his military. With his entire county in a stalemate, and control split the way it was, it could have gone on for much longer than it already has if action wasn't taken. Worst case scenario, it becomes a "North Korea South Korea" situtation.
See, many people in the US take what freedoms we have for granted. In a country like Libya or even Iraq prior to the invasion, just posting anti-government messages on a forum were enough to get you rounded up by secret police and executed.
I've been to many different countries and have seen first-hand the atrocities that people are capable of committing against others. In some cases, intervention is necessary. In others, it comes too late.
Had we finished the job in the 90's hundreds of thousands of kurds would still be alive, instead of stored in mass graves in warehouses within Iraq. Until you've actually been there and have seen a warehouse filled with wooden boxes the size of people and then told you had to clear out because there was an NBC (Nuclear Biological chemical) issue you don't truly understand what happened to the people in some of these countries.
One of the triggers in the Libyan conflict that is going on right now, is the fact that Gadaffi turned his military loose on peaceful protesters.
Hell, the same thing almost happened in britain recently. Rioting and looting was so rampant that they were getting close to deploying the military to contain it. And what started that? Police shot and killed a black gang-member. But, a rumor was that it was an execution. It wasn't released until later that he had a gun. And by that time, the damage was done and everything was set for the riot. Then, after the peaceful protest that one august day, a single act of violence exploded into violence and rioting that lasted for over a week.
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we are staying out of it. We just helped with the Air Raids because, well, who else has supersonic jet-fighters that can guide bombs through 2 foot wide windows right into the fact of their target?
Oh yea, nobody.
We handed it over to NATO after all the fun was had.
Who else does? UK and France, who were both too fucking lazy to do it themselves so they begged us to.
As for the British Police shooting someone, OF COURSE HE HAD A FUCKING GUN! THE BRITS DON'T CALL GUNS IN UNLESS THE FOES GOT GUNS CAUSE THEY'RE PUSSIES!
I'm gonna go on record and tell you to shut the fuck up now. Seriously, it was no ones business but Libya's what was going on in their country. The whole reason the US is so fucked up right now is because we can't keep our nose out of other countries' shit and focus on OUR FUCKING PROBLEMS! Seriously, I don't fucking care what's wrong in other countries because my own country fell to shit. And I blame the American people for being to fucking stupid to take advantage of a right enshrined in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, and that's to drag these dumb fuck leaders that are all about them out of fucking office and line them up against a wall and start fucking shooting.
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First,
What the fuck? You talk about how Americans should use the declaration of independence and Constitution, then tell me to shut the fuck up when I'm stating an opinion USING rights I'm guaranteed by freedom of speech??? Really, I had thought higher of you before you made that comment
Is America falling on hard times? Yes. But does that mean we should stop doing what makes us americans? No.
One of the things that makes America such a great country is the fact that we don't turn away requests for help. We give aid to those who need it and will help just about anyone who requests it. Be it a small african country, or Libyian Rebels who are fighting against a dictator who is executing them in the streets.
Like it or not, problems in countries like Libya aren't just their business. They are the worlds business, and they can effect the entire world if left alone. If you remember, the rebels were posting on the internet and begging for help because the leader of their country was TURNING TANKS ON THEM. Literally, he was having tanks roll down the street killing innocent people who were just in their homes, in their yards, or just looking at what was going on. They called for help from anyone, and while the rest of the world was still trying to figure out who was going to lead the NATO Ground forces to assist them, we hit critical targets with airstrikes which impacted the ability of Gadaffi's military to continue to execute thousands of people. And, what if there had been no UN coalition? After Gadaffi is toppled, the country could break into a bunch of splinter-states and all be fighting for control. With a UN coalition, they will have some control and be able to stabilize more quickly than if everyone breaks apart and there are another 15 years of in-fighting.
What surprises me, is how your acting like what I typically see as a "Spoiled American Citizen". Someone who has taken their freedoms for granted and only complains about the current situation and tries to tear down anyone who defends our country. But you know what, you have that right. And I have no problem debating or discussing politics or anything else with you. But there is no reason for you to get so hostile or turn this thread from a civilized discussion into personal attacks and disrespect by telling me to shut the fuck up because your opinion is correct. It's an opinion not fact.
But it's people that have the "I don't care about it if it doesn't effect me" point of view that is whats wrong with America today. That's why we are in the situation that we are in. Because it might not be the same type of greed that politicians exhibit, but it's still greed.
Putting yourself before others, ignoring the plights of others, and not looking out for your neighbor. Sitting back and doing nothing as people are hurt around you. THAT IS NOT THE AMERICAN WAY.
Our country has changed much in the 200+ years since the Declaration of Independence was signed. But some things have stayed the same. We still look out for each other. Now, We stayed and minded our own business concerning the rest of the world for the first hundred of so years, and what happened? The Nazi's almost conquered the entire world. Imagine how many lives could have been saved and how much damage could have been prevented if we had joined the fight sooner than when the British were trying to push them back. That was when our point of view changed. We realized, we can't just be an introverted xenophobic culture, we have to look at whats happening in the rest of the world because if we can make a difference, we should. If we can help someone, we try.
Back when I was in the Army, me and some friends were at a Sonics in Atlanta at an intersection when, a lady driving her minivan smashed into someone on a motorcycle. His bike went flying down the road, and he rolled over her van and smashed onto the ground. Right away, we jumped out of my truck and grabbed the CLS (Combat LifeSaver) to go render aid. Do you know what the people that were behind the van and in the nearby lane did? They started honking.
Because that's what is wrong with America. Greed and putting yourself and your comfort above others. Me and 2 other people were sitting with this guy as he was laying down on the ground bleeding all over the place with many broken bones (he had been not moving in a turn lane, and she was probably going 35+ miles an hour) and the people right by us were honking and yelling for us to get him to get out of the road. Why? Because they were slightly inconvenienced by the fact that he was laying there slowly dieing. Luckily, an ambulance arrived before he died, and they took him to a hospital. Last I had heard, was that he ended up surviving, but was in recovery for a long time. Imagine how inconvenienced he was? He almost died in the middle of a road, and if he had, one of the last things he would have heard would have been people swearing and honking their horns because someone driving their kids home got distracted and hit him.
That is our problem. Everyone is so self-centered that they don't want to deal with a little bit of hardship. They'd rather just bitch about the system and complain that we are still trying to do one of the things that sets us apart from other countries, help those in need.
And finally, as far as the British shooting that guy, I wasn't condemning them for it. Hell, if he had a gun and was a gang-member, he DESERVED to get shot. I was simply pointing out that the public was so quick to respond without the full story and I was making a point that a small event such as that, could cause wide-spread effects.
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Here's something for you, I can almost guarantee that if polled, the American people would have preferred to stay the fuck out of Libya. America was supposed to be governed by representatives of the people. If you're allowing funding to go through for military actions to aid a country most Americans couldn't find on the fucking map, you are representing nothing but yourself.
And let's face it, if you're going to the point where you might have to declare bankruptcy, you don't pay your cousin's car payment because he lost his job. The American Government is the most fiscally irresponsible system I have ever seen.
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jesus christ what have I done
we are staying out of it. We just helped with the Air Raids because, well, who else has supersonic jet-fighters that can guide bombs through 2 foot wide windows right into the fact of their target?
Oh yea, nobody.
We handed it over to NATO after all the fun was had.
The US is part of NATO, and I assume it is the largest contributor of NATOs presence in Libya.
And now there are a group of clueless young men with guns and no leadership in sight.
This will end well.
Why the fuck can't we just let them kill each other and stay out of it?
A. because jesus won't come back if we let the arabs kill the jews
B. because getting oil at the expense of middle eastern peace is preferable to getting it at the expense of polar bears and sea turtles off our own shores
C. America, fuck yeah, Freedom is the only fuckin way, yeah.
D. Florida
3. Profit!!!
Israel can handle itself. They're too badass to take any shit from them. And what oil are we getting again?
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>_> this really should be in CC, this is too intelligent of a discussion for RI
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One of the things that makes America such a great country is the fact that we don't turn away requests for help. We give aid to those who need it and will help just about anyone who requests it. Be it a small african country, or Libyian Rebels who are fighting against a dictator who is executing them in the streets.
The only thing we've changed is who's doing the killing. And do you really think things will be better after all of this? Democracy just kicks in because we dropped some bombs? Why don't we just step over to Syria and start some shit there too. I'm sure we can afford that.
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>_> this really should be in CC, this is too intelligent of a discussion for RI
DICKS IN MY ANUS
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I went of RI this morning to read something lighthearted and silly, preferably focused on penises, and I run into this? I'm horribly distraught now, and must go back to bed.
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seems there's always this argument between the side that thinks all america's intervention is evil, and the side that thinks all america's non-intervention is evil.
we didn't beat the nazis alone (thanks russia), and if we hadn't gotten involved when we did, they still would not have been able to conquer the entire world even if they had nukes (imagine the vietnam war times 1000, that would have been their attempt to occupy north america and russia.)
Israel can handle itself. They're too badass to take any shit from them. And what oil are we getting again?
I wasn't serious. if there are economic reasons we are involved in the middle east, I doubt it's as simple as the rhetoric spouted by bush-haters.
>_> this really should be in CC, this is too intelligent of a discussion for RI
DICKS IN MY ANUS
Piss Out my Ass - The Song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSws9TQ6Ay4#)
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Were part of NATO, but NATO isn't in charge... the UN is... I mixed the two, mainly because I had recently returned from a bar and was still a smidge tipsy. It's UN forces that are running the Libyan conflict, not NATO. the US is NOT involved at all anymore. We just did the bombings, partly cause were the best at it, partly because the UN was still trying to figure out what they were going to do. They gave us permission to provide airstrikes to help while they in-fought who was going to run the UN forces.
And if I remember, it was almost the US in charge of it anyway, cause the UN was leaning towards it till we said we were happy to bomb them and provide CAS as necessary, but we would not be sending ANY ground forces.
See, what's going on over in that area now, is that Egypt's long-time rule was toppled, and other countries saw that it could be done, and hopped on the wagon.
I'm not saying that in 20 years this won't happen again, but you have to realize, roughly every 40 or so years this happens all over the middle east anyway. All we did, was expedite the process within libya because neither side had the resources to properly beat the other side and end the conflict.
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We just did the bombings, partly cause were the best at it, partly because the UN was still trying to figure out what they were going to do. They gave us permission to provide airstrikes to help while they in-fought who was going to run the UN forces.
PFFFFFFFTTTTT
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we didn't beat the nazis alone (thanks russia), and if we hadn't gotten involved when we did, they still would not have been able to conquer the entire world even if they had nukes (imagine the vietnam war times 1000, that would have been their attempt to occupy north america and russia.)
It probably would have been a great idea to just let the soviet union and germany kill each other anyway. Though the result of that would probably have been the soviets steam rolling through all of europe.
I also just found out recently that the soviet union declared war on Poland like 2 weeks after Germany did. Public schools suck donkey balls.
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We just did the bombings, partly cause were the best at it, partly because the UN was still trying to figure out what they were going to do. They gave us permission to provide airstrikes to help while they in-fought who was going to run the UN forces.
PFFFFFFFTTTTT
if we needed to drop snowballs on them, we would have called canada.
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One of the things that makes America such a great country is the fact that we don't turn away requests for help. We give aid to those who need it and will help just about anyone who requests it. Be it a small african country, or Libyian Rebels who are fighting against a dictator who is executing them in the streets.
The only thing we've changed is who's doing the killing. And do you really think things will be better after all of this? Democracy just kicks in because we dropped some bombs? Why don't we just step over to Syria and start some shit there too. I'm sure we can afford that.
Yeah, this. I've actually read the Libyan rebels haven't been any better then the regime they're replacing, they'd drag people out into the streets and kill them just because. Of course, the US Government would never let the American Newspapers report this.
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It's just stupid to think that our government could control any part of the news even if they tried.
We can barly manage to keep our government under control much less the news. Not to mention, if we DID have the news under control, you can bet your ass that it would have reported we found WMDs in Iraq a LONG time ago.
My personal experience with the news and reporters (we had a fox reported with our unit for a time) is that they will go with whatever gives them ratings. So if it gives them ratings to not show the rebels executing people in the streets, they won't do it. Our government has little to no say in whats broadcast.
In fact, did you know that it's not illegal to broadcast blatant nudity over the TV? It's just not profitable. You see, the networks make money from the commercials. And noone that pays piles of money is going to want to advertise if there is nudity being broadcast because the rating of the show becomes TV-MA-NS at a minimum. You throw in some language or violence and it's TV-MA-LNSV which means your audience got cut into tiny pieces. Thus, the advertisers drop from the big-money ones to the low-money ones, and that makes it less profitable. It's not illegal to broadcast nudity, it's just not profitable.
How do I know this you might ask? Because Digital Cinema FORCES us to take Commerce Classes relating to ratings, commercialism, and profitability.
I actually did a report on the TV-MA ratings, and found some crazy information. For example, did you know that one of the few casts where N was actually used (N is pretty much only used for full-body nudity), was in the first episode of stargate when it was owned by showtime?
The official rating of the episode (under the new system), is TV-MA-LNV. Language, Nudity, Violence.
So yea, while there is control over what it broadcast, it's not the government doing the controlling, it's the industry.
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If anything, the media has more control over the government than the other way around.
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How was any of that relevant at all?
I hate to shatter your views, but the Military can control what news gets out, because they're the ones that let reporters into combat zones.
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You have no idea. I WISH we could have controlled what they wanted us to do when we had them with us.
If they were embedded with you for the day, expect to go DIRECTLY towards anything that explodes or shoots.
Normally, a unit stays within their sector, but when you have a journalist in your squad, it's a bit different.
I was unlucky enough to have this CNN reporter with our unit at one point:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c127/freeyourmind775/CNNwithcols.jpg)
So, our mission was to hand out supplies to a local school (normally, this was done by the FSB troops, but our commander wanted to look good on the news, and since I was a gunner in the command convoy, I got to go with).
We arrived at the school and handed out stuff for about an hour. Her camera-man took about 5 minutes of footage, none with her. She talked with our commander and took photos for a bit, then waited in the HMMWV. After the first hour, there was a huge explosion and smoke-plume off in the distance. It was outside our AO so we kept handing stuff out. That is, until the reporter DEMANDED that we take her there (despite the reports that there was a conflict between insurgents and IA and Coalition forces). At first, we told her no, because we had our commander with us, and we had the supplies to hand out, But after she called the brigade commander, we were ordered to go. So, we split our patrol up into 2 groups (one to continue handing the supplies out), and the other took her to see the fighting. Luckily, I got to stay with the group handing out the supplies. When the other group returned to base (roughly 5 hours after we split up, and 3 full hours beyond their scheduled return time), our commander stormed into his office and the reporter left to go send her segment in. I don't remember what her segment ended up being about (didn't really care), but I know that a lot of soldiers were pissed about it and there was nothing that could be done.
The media reports what they want. The best our government was able to do, was to force censor any pictures or videos that showed the deaths of soldiers until their immediate family had been notified. Which again, is STILL not always the case (I've heard more than a few stories of reporters who got their stories to the US before the "media blackout" was started and loved ones heard about the deaths of their sons, daughters, or husbands from the nightly news shortly before they were informed by the military).
If we can't even stop them from reporting long enough to properly alert the family of fallen soldiers of their loss, then there is NO WAY we could censor them about anything.
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atonichis, stop disagreeing with crazyman based on personal experience. he is a guy on a forum, he clearly knows what he is talking about.