Random Insanity Alliance Forum, Mark V

Cactuar Zone => Random lnsanity => Topic started by: Buck Turgidson on October 06, 2011, 07:30:50 am

Title: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Buck Turgidson on October 06, 2011, 07:30:50 am
For the few independent thinkers still left out there, please join me in celebrating the death of Steve Jobs. 

His minions will surely press on selling apples, but none could be as monopolistic and hateful of their customers and the #2 snake, now dead and hopfully forgotten shortly.
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Mia on October 06, 2011, 07:52:41 am
I don't believe in celebrating anyone's death even if I dislike Apple technology. He was only 56 and died of a long battle of cancer.
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Buck Turgidson on October 06, 2011, 08:33:54 am
He was a thief and a charlatan who crushed the dreams of other aspiring inventors.  An arrogant elitist who framed his products as the "people's" products, but priced them out of their grasp.  Instead of bringing people together through technological innovation, he drove them apart, and highlighted the difference between the rich and the poor.  He worked for the 'haves' and against the 'have-nots', which was easy for him since he came from the 'haves'.  He invaded the privacy of millions.  He popularised the use of cell phones (a know carcinogen) for kids, and may eventually be responsible for shortening the lives of tens of thousands. 

I would have shot him myself to put him out of his suffering.  In the face.
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: undiscoveredbum on October 06, 2011, 09:13:48 am
Troll harder faggot
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Buck Turgidson on October 06, 2011, 10:36:47 am
I guess you are a member of the cult - as I said, independent thinkers only please.
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: undiscoveredbum on October 06, 2011, 11:41:55 am
Nah, fuck Apple. Fuck Apple right in the ear.

And fuck you too.
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Rezin99 on October 06, 2011, 12:03:17 pm
Lul, UI thought I was the only one who felt this way. Ironically it sort of makes us the hipsters  :horrified:
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Pterrydactyl on October 06, 2011, 02:21:44 pm
despite my hatred for Steve Jobbs, I won't celebrate his death.

He is(was) one of the people I despise most in this world, but that doesn't mean his death is a reason to celebrate.
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: C-zom on October 06, 2011, 06:46:45 pm
This topic is fucking embarrassing.
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Snowbound Milk on October 06, 2011, 08:47:13 pm
This topic is fucking embarrassing.
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Mia on October 06, 2011, 09:33:16 pm
Guess what? The world is full of corrupt people, he didn't kill anyone, the world is unfair. Welcome to life. Wishing death on anyone doesn't make you any better though.
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Buck Turgidson on October 07, 2011, 03:13:29 am
Guess what? The world is full of corrupt people, he didn't kill anyone, the world is unfair. Welcome to life. Wishing death on anyone doesn't make you any better though.

Bravo on you Mia for your hippy tolerance.  I am very happy that Hitler, Pol Pot, and Saddam Hussein are dead.  I would have shot them in the face too - in their cases 2-3 times.  Steve Jobs only deserves 1 bullet.  So, same scale, different ranges.  The fact that he did not kill anyone with his own hands is not the issue; death is a part of life and not the saddest part - far sadder is what dies within a person while they live, and he is responsible for a lot of that. 

And as I said, popularising cell phones for children, when their cell-division process is at its peak (and therefore susceptibility to cancer), might not kill them on the spot, but could be more insidious in the long run.  Not to mention the dreams and aspirations of the kids whose parents can't afford the Apple bling, and get conditioned to shelve those dreams because so many things in their lives are out of their reach.  Highlighted by Apple.

Apple has become what people feared Microsoft would become - an abusive, overbearing, monopolistic blight on the competitive landscape (ok MS is some of those things, but not all).  In fact, all the warning signs were there a long time ago - Steve Jobs actually lost out when he was on the ground floor of the PC market because of his anti-competitive, closed-source business philosophies.  What a loser, and the results were fair at that time.

When we finally shucked the BS of record distribution companies, he got into bed with them to screw consumers out of more of their money.  I can't install Apple's operating system on my computer without buying his hardware (or going through a painful BIOS modification process, all so Apple doesn't have to compete and so they can further screw customers.

But worst of all are the mindless drones he made out of his customers - I don't care what your phone can do - it's not like you invented it, you just bought it - anyone can do that.  What a retarded consumer frenzy.  The only compliments I can offer are the same as I would offer Hitler for whipping people up into mindless obedience.  Very few of them are creative - in that they don't actually create anything of value, yet they arrogantly think that because they have an Apple product that makes them creative.

Steve Jobs was the consumerist equivalent of a cult leader or a religious fundamentalist - dangerous at best and insidious at worst.  But he still only gets one bullet.
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: undiscoveredbum on October 07, 2011, 03:31:10 am
Did you just fucking equate Steve Jobs with Hitler?
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Arsenal 10 on October 07, 2011, 05:08:50 am
Hate the game, not the player.
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Rezin99 on October 07, 2011, 10:23:01 am
Guess what? The world is full of corrupt people, he didn't kill anyone, the world is unfair. Welcome to life. Wishing death on anyone doesn't make you any better though.

Yeah? how do you know?

he may not have killed anyone..........

directly
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Lucy on October 07, 2011, 10:31:54 am
Did you just fucking equate Steve Jobs with Hitler?

I read this topic with the intention of responding, but after reading bum's signature and the above statement, I've decided that it's pointless. I'll only say that disguising "people who agree with me" as "independent thinkers" isn't going to fool anyone here.

Anything I could say, Mia could say better, so I'll let her post in this topic for me, because she pretty much hits the nail on the head every time.
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Ogaden on October 07, 2011, 12:33:22 pm
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Mia on October 07, 2011, 01:48:18 pm
I really have no wish to get into a long argument but I find people who hate upon specific people who run corporations as misguided because we are consumers and equating them to Hitler? Seriously?

I am not a hippie but wishing death upon a public figure? It makes you no better. Sure you have a target but you're not really thinking through the entire system, no one person is responsible for our corrupt world and every single one of us contributes to it in a way. I am a realist, not a hippy, I just don't find it worth my time to wish death on someone or have such vehement hate for someone you don't even personally know. Going so far to wish death on them? He fought cancer, he didn't kill anyone, to equate him to the level of Hitler, Stalin and other mass murderers.. that is just unbelieveable. I have no wish to continue along this line of argument. I made my point, we will agree to disagree. I am not making attacks on your character or calling you a hippy like you deign me. I merely believe in setting principles and living by them. Sure I dislike people but there is a difference between not liking someone and wanting their death.

Guess what? The world is full of corrupt people, he didn't kill anyone, the world is unfair. Welcome to life. Wishing death on anyone doesn't make you any better though.

Yeah? how do you know?

he may not have killed anyone..........

directly

You know I could go into how we all kill someone indirectly by being consumers and supporting the market that starves children in Africa and how merely buying a bottle of water could make you an accomplice in murder across the world. However, that is stretching it and I am not really someone who wants to make that argument. We all easily could be argued supporters of killing someone indirectly. Steve Jobs is no different than any one of us.

Did you just fucking equate Steve Jobs with Hitler?

I read this topic with the intention of responding, but after reading bum's signature and the above statement, I've decided that it's pointless. I'll only say that disguising "people who agree with me" as "independent thinkers" isn't going to fool anyone here.

Anything I could say, Mia could say better, so I'll let her post in this topic for me, because she pretty much hits the nail on the head every time.

Oh please, you are just as eloquent.
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Brian on October 07, 2011, 03:46:00 pm
yeah.......

I'm going to have to side with mia and Lucy on this one...

I do not like apple, I do not like them at all, I would even go so far as to say i hate everything apple has ever created/endorsed/stood for since the apple II came out. and Steve jobs was the cause of most of this dislike. Am i glad he stepped down from CEO? sure am. Am i glad he died? hell no. Just because someone does something you do not like does not mean its ok to celebrate his death...

     You claim he has *most likely* given cancer to thousands of children because of the proliferation of cellphones during the adolescent/teen years. I'm not sure where you live, but most 'kids' that have cell phones that i see arnt iphones, they are "dumb-phones" or androids. I don't see what the iphone itself had to do with this, its simply a requirement in today's society to be able to call or text at any time. Ive had a cellphone since i was 15(ish). Never had anything but your basic free dumb-phone. That was before the first iphone came out.

I would respond to the rest of your shenanigans, but i grew bored reading your RAEGRAEGRAEGRAEG post.
     

tl;dr hate the game not the playah
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: undiscoveredbum on October 07, 2011, 04:33:49 pm
     You claim he has *most likely* given cancer to thousands of children because of the proliferation of cellphones during the adolescent/teen years. I'm not sure where you live, but most 'kids' that have cell phones that i see arnt iphones, they are "dumb-phones" or androids. I don't see what the iphone itself had to do with this, its simply a requirement in today's society to be able to call or text at any time. Ive had a cellphone since i was 15(ish). Never had anything but your basic free dumb-phone. That was before the first iphone came out.

The whole "phones causing cancer" thing is bullshit anyway.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904800304576472232980823392.html (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904800304576472232980823392.html)

Quote
A European study involving nearly 1,000 participants has found no link between cellular-phone use and brain tumors in children and adolescents, a group that may be particularly sensitive to phone emissions.
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Leo on October 07, 2011, 07:20:08 pm
I'll only say that disguising "people who agree with me" as "independent thinkers" isn't going to fool anyone here.
I completely agree because I'm an independent thinker.
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Buck Turgidson on October 08, 2011, 01:35:50 am
I did not equate Steve Jobs with Hitler - just made the point that it is perfectly alright to wish death on someone, and that they both led fanatics - otherwise they were  different.  There are assholes in the world whose death would result in a net improvement for all. 

Mia, you have political correctness down pat - you should write a Dear Mia column on morality - seniors & hippies would love it.  Lucy could be your co-editor.  For the record, you are the only peron who posted here who I would not call an independent thinker - you are chained to PC dogma from which you may never escape.  Even so you are free to disagree with me.  That said it sounds like someone has crushed your dreams, and it is a shame that you don't strive to make the world a better place - cynicism is such a fucking bore, and amounts to intellectual laziness.

     You claim he has *most likely* given cancer to thousands of children because of the proliferation of cellphones during the adolescent/teen years. I'm not sure where you live, but most 'kids' that have cell phones that i see arnt iphones, they are "dumb-phones" or androids. I don't see what the iphone itself had to do with this, its simply a requirement in today's society to be able to call or text at any time. Ive had a cellphone since i was 15(ish). Never had anything but your basic free dumb-phone. That was before the first iphone came out.

The whole "phones causing cancer" thing is oxshit anyway.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904800304576472232980823392.html (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904800304576472232980823392.html)

Quote
A European study involving nearly 1,000 participants has found no link between cellular-phone use and brain tumors in children and adolescents, a group that may be particularly sensitive to phone emissions.

Let's checkin on you in a few years - that study was funded by the cell phone industry - check your sources moron.

Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Brian on October 08, 2011, 02:44:11 am
i noticed you completely ignored my post and went right for the easy to dispute topic, the scientific study someone that wasnt me posted.

and for the record, this seems to be the consensus among everyone
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/cellphones (http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/cellphones)
we don't know for a fact it causes cancer, but its a strong possibility.

and if you look into most studies on the topic. they almost all say that the further away from your body the actual phone is, the less radiation is absorbed. the iphone revolutionized the way we text with its auto correct and full qwerty keyboard that was actually a reasonable size.

have some texting vs iphone sales stats.
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Apple_iPhone#History_and_availability (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Apple_iPhone#History_and_availability) <<cant hotlink to image do to file type restrictions

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/SMS_messages_sent_monthly_in_USA_%28in_billions%29.svg/300px-SMS_messages_sent_monthly_in_USA_%28in_billions%29.svg.png)
texts per month. so before 07 there were about 20 billion texts sent every month. after the iphone came out, it went up to 30 every month. that's a 150% increase to the total texts used. you can probably safely assume that this also means a decrease in the total amount of phone calls made.
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Leo on October 08, 2011, 02:50:29 am
so before 07 there were about 20 billion texts sent every month. after the iphone came out, it went up to 30 every month. that's a 150% increase to the total texts used. you can probably safely assume that this also means a decrease in the total amount of phone calls made.
That's a terrible use of statistics. Just because texts went up says nothing about calls. I'm ashamed at you for this failure, brian.
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Brian on October 08, 2011, 03:38:57 am
stfu leo. ill stab you in the fucking eye.

also, my logic is actually sounder then grilled slugs's when he claims that kids use cellphones more because of the iphone. at least i had some stats to make my theory look decent.

/me is quite drunk.
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Arsenal 10 on October 08, 2011, 05:45:02 am
No! Wait, I remember now. The saying is "don't hate the player, hate the game." Not any of that oxshit I (and brian) was talking about earlier. >_>
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Snowbound Milk on October 08, 2011, 09:43:40 am
also, my logic is actually sounder then grilled slugs's when he claims that kids use cellphones more because of the iphone. at least i had some stats to make my theory look decent.
Only 41% of RIAers would agree with you.

See, I can make stats too.
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: undiscoveredbum on October 08, 2011, 03:57:38 pm

     You claim he has *most likely* given cancer to thousands of children because of the proliferation of cellphones during the adolescent/teen years. I'm not sure where you live, but most 'kids' that have cell phones that i see arnt iphones, they are "dumb-phones" or androids. I don't see what the iphone itself had to do with this, its simply a requirement in today's society to be able to call or text at any time. Ive had a cellphone since i was 15(ish). Never had anything but your basic free dumb-phone. That was before the first iphone came out.

The whole "phones causing cancer" thing is oxshit anyway.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904800304576472232980823392.html (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904800304576472232980823392.html)

Quote
A European study involving nearly 1,000 participants has found no link between cellular-phone use and brain tumors in children and adolescents, a group that may be particularly sensitive to phone emissions.

Let's checkin on you in a few years - that study was funded by the cell phone industry - check your sources moron.



And that invalidates the study somehow?

But how about this?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/05/16/cancer-cellphones-idUSLDE64F0J420100516 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/05/16/cancer-cellphones-idUSLDE64F0J420100516)

Or this?
http://techcrunch.com/2009/12/05/huge-scandinavian-study-suggests-no-link-between-mobiles-and-brain-cancer-so-relax/ (http://techcrunch.com/2009/12/05/huge-scandinavian-study-suggests-no-link-between-mobiles-and-brain-cancer-so-relax/)

Believe what you want, and shut the fuck up, because I'm done here.
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Buck Turgidson on October 09, 2011, 05:02:23 am
Holy cow - that is a lot of stupid shit.  Let me point it out for you:

texts per month. so before 07 there were about 20 billion texts sent every month. after the iphone came out, it went up to 30 every month. that's a 150% increase to the total texts used. you can probably safely assume that this also means a decrease in the total amount of phone calls made.

If you are going to quote a heap of unconnected stats, then opine randomly about calls being made, just skip the stats.  My best counter to this is to say that cell calls have gone up as well, since there are more phones in the market - at least this is more logical.  And who says texting doesn't cause cancer?  The messages still go over the same network, using the same transmitter.  WHat makes me laugh is people who think they are dodging the cancer by using bluetooth or a wired mike, then put the phone in their pocket (ie right next to their balls, pancreas, kidneys, prostate, and/or uterus).  That's like jumping out of one lane to dodge a car and getting smacked by another.

so before 07 there were about 20 billion texts sent every month. after the iphone came out, it went up to 30 every month. that's a 150% increase to the total texts used. you can probably safely assume that this also means a decrease in the total amount of phone calls made.
That's a terrible use of statistics. Just because texts went up says nothing about calls. I'm ashamed at you for this failure, brian.

I am not ashamed at Brian, but I hope he has learned something by your snide repartée.

stfu leo. ill stab you in the fucking eye.

also, my logic is actually sounder then grilled slugs's when he claims that kids use cellphones more because of the iphone. at least i had some stats to make my theory look decent.

/me is quite aroused by Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan.

No it doesn't.  It makes you look like you don't know how to tie stats and a logical argument together.  Notice I am not quoting any stats - once you go down that path, some idiot will smokescreen the argument with false otr irrelevant stats anyhow.  Thanks for illustrating the point.

also, my logic is actually sounder then grilled slugs's when he claims that kids use cellphones more because of the iphone. at least i had some stats to make my theory look decent.
Only 41% of RIAers would agree with you.

See, I can make stats too.

Which study are you quoting Snowbound?  Because I have seen one that says that 59% disagree with Brian.  It doesn't say anyything about the rest.  No, wait I found the section - it says 59% disagree with Brian, 19% are hungover, 16% have run out of cream for that itch, and 7% can't count.  Oh - I see your extrapolation now.  Good correction.



Or this?
http://techcrunch.com/2009/12/05/huge-scandinavian-study-suggests-no-link-between-mobiles-and-brain-cancer-so-relax/ (http://techcrunch.com/2009/12/05/huge-scandinavian-study-suggests-no-link-between-mobiles-and-brain-cancer-so-relax/)

Believe what you want, and shut the fuck up, because I'm done here.

Are you kidding?  Quoting a Scandanavian study on cell phone usage?  In the home of Nokia?  That's like quoting a Texan study on Global Warming.  Sorry for the generalisation, but the media are whores to their home industries, because guess what, they sell ads.  And researchers are worse whores than that.  So logically, you should only trust reports that have something bad to say about products, technology...etc.  Ok I am just being a prick now.

Sorry I said Mia was the only non-independent thinker, but when someone tells someone else to shut up and that they are done, they just don't have the marbles for independent thought.  Incidentally that's exactly what Mia did, and she is a teenage virgin.  U-Bum, you were done before you even opened your mouth...lol
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Fake from State Jarm on October 09, 2011, 05:45:38 am
funniest shit I've read in a while, someone tell kenny one of his alts has developed sentience
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Buck Turgidson on October 09, 2011, 09:27:57 am
funniest shit I've read in a while, someone tell kenny one of his alts has developed sentience

Yeah I am having a blast.  Just wish Brian hadn't brought Margaret up.  It reminds me of the palsy cock-shake she promised me and that I will never collect on...
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: undiscoveredbum on October 09, 2011, 12:08:34 pm
You aren't even trying at this point.
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Snowbound Milk on October 09, 2011, 12:58:19 pm
I never try. Trying is a sin in these halls.
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Buck Turgidson on October 09, 2011, 01:23:02 pm
You aren't even trying at this point.

Hey I thought you were done.
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: undiscoveredbum on October 09, 2011, 04:10:54 pm
You believed me?
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Brian on October 09, 2011, 08:10:10 pm

Notice I am not quoting any stats - once you go down that path, some idiot will smokescreen the argument with false otr irrelevant stats anyhow.  Thanks for illustrating the point.

Never Let The Facts Get In The Way Of A The Truth.
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Snowbound Milk on October 09, 2011, 08:11:24 pm
I am the a truth.
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Buck Turgidson on October 10, 2011, 03:03:48 am
You believed me?

Yeah I did.  And I was really disappointed because you have the single coolest avatar ever.

Notice I am not quoting any stats - once you go down that path, some idiot will smokescreen the argument with false otr irrelevant stats anyhow.  Thanks for illustrating the point.

Never Let The Facts Get In The Way Of A The Truth.

Facts should be used to substantiate the truth, not the other way around.  If, for example, you said that Apple caused an increase in texting at the expense of cell phone calls up front, then quoted the appropriate stats to make that point, then I might have listened instead of ridiculed you.  But even that would be predicated on the idea that cell phone calls alone are *potentially* responsible for cancer, and that texting is safe.  Also, the question is whether it can cause only brian cancer (lol), and cannot be connected to, for example, anus cancer because people keep their phones in the pockets.

Scientific method starts with a hypothesis that you prove or disprove - that is how you use facts and not get used by them...
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Brian on October 10, 2011, 01:45:42 pm
     Fine, since you are going to start complaining I'm not getting good enough info and that my logic is faulty have some facts.


     Here is one about texting being better.
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Mobile_phone_radiation_and_health (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Mobile_phone_radiation_and_health)
Quote
Precaution
 Precautionary principle

In 2000, the World Health Organization (WHO) recommended that the precautionary principle could be voluntarily adopted in this case.[81] It follows the recommendations of the European Community for environmental risks. According to the WHO, the "precautionary principle" is "a risk management policy applied in circumstances with a high degree of scientific uncertainty, reflecting the need to take action for a potentially serious risk without awaiting the results of scientific research." Other less stringent recommended approaches are prudent avoidance principle and as low as reasonably practicable. Although all of these are problematic in application, due to the widespread use and economic importance of wireless telecommunication systems in modern civilization, there is an increased tonicularity of such measures in the general public, though also evidence that such approaches may increase concern.[82] They involve recommendations such as the minimization of cellphone usage, the limitation of use by at-risk toniculation (such as children), the adoption of cellphones and microcells with as low as reasonably practicable levels of radiation, the wider use of hands-free and earphone technologies such as Bluetooth headsets, the adoption of maximal standards of exposure, RF field intensity and distance of base stations antennas from human habitations, and so forth.[citation needed]
[edit] Precautionary measures and health advisories

In May 2011, the World Health Organisation's International Agency for Research on Cancer announced it was classifying electromagnetic fields from mobile phones and other sources as "possibly carcinogenic to humans" and advised the public to adopt safety measures to reduce exposure, like use of hands-free devices or texting.

Some national radiation advisory authorities, including those of Austria,[3] France,[83] Germany,[84] and Sweden,[85] have recommended measures to minimize exposure to their citizens. Examples of the recommendations are:

    Use hands-free to decrease the radiation to the head.
    Keep the mobile phone away from the body.
    Do not use telephone in a car without an external antenna.

The use of "hands-free" was not recommended by the British Consumers' Association in a statement in November 2000 as they believed that exposure was increased.[86] However, measurements for the (then) UK Department of Trade and Industry[87] and others for the French l’Agence française de sécurité sanitaire environnementale[88] showed substantial reductions. In 2005 Professor Lawrie Challis and others said clipping a ferrite bead onto hands-free kits stops the radio waves travelling up the wire and into the head.[89]

Several nations have advised moderate use of mobile phones for children.[90]

     Have one about a bunch of different studies, none point it any kind of definitive answer. It also goes over pretty much all the facts about radiation, how its calculated and such. A good read if I do say so myself.

https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/mragheb/www/NPRE%20402%20ME%20405%20Nuclear%20Power%20Engineering/Nonionizing%20Radiation.pdf (https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/mragheb/www/NPRE%20402%20ME%20405%20Nuclear%20Power%20Engineering/Nonionizing%20Radiation.pdf)


     After much looking I have been able to only find studies saying that "Consumers with smartphones increasingly view phone calls as so last century," not apple alone. But since we agreed smartphones were basically started by apple I felt it still had merits in this post.

http://mobilenow.yankeegroup.com/articles/24621/mobile-phone-users-text-more-than-talk/ (http://mobilenow.yankeegroup.com/articles/24621/mobile-phone-users-text-more-than-talk/)


     And here is a giant ass list of radiation produced by they claim all, but I'm sure its just most, cellphones. apparently the iphone isn't even close to the worst offender when it comes to radiation. And, surprisingly, many dumbphones are at the top of the list. Notice how radiation drops when 'worn on the body'
http://www.ewg.org/cellphoneradiation/Get-a-Safer-Phone?allphones=1 (http://www.ewg.org/cellphoneradiation/Get-a-Safer-Phone?allphones=1)
http://www.ewg.org/cellphoneradiation/Get-a-Safer-Phone/Apple/iPhone+3G+S/ (http://www.ewg.org/cellphoneradiation/Get-a-Safer-Phone/Apple/iPhone+3G+S/)


Now, if you wouldn't mind I would like to see you post some facts insted of speculation. You dont win your point be proving mine to be wrong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW87GRmunMY
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Buck Turgidson on October 10, 2011, 03:22:17 pm
First of all Appe did not start smartphones.  They existed long before Apple got into the mobile business.  I think Nokia was probably first with the Communicator, but I am not sure - that was in 1998-9.

Ok I hate to like the wikipedia, becauce there is so much nonsense on the site, but we have to start with the WHo recommendation that more long-term research is needed.  Historically, they are at the same point that the tobacco industry was at when they argued there was no conclusive link between smoking and cancer.  Innocent until proven guilty has some drawbacks, and lets corporate citizens get away with murder.  Still, I criticize the source because it is wikipedia...

The Netfiles bit is indeed a good read.  The kind of introspectively scientific document that I would grab on my way to the john.  That's a compliment.  But it does not say anything about ass cancer.  It does insinuate at the beginning that texting could be a cancer averting strategy, but there is no talk of the potential increase in finger and thumb cancer.  Also, I notice a lot of people rest their phones on their balls when they text.  That can't be good.

Mobilenow is also interesting but says nothing about a decrease in phone calls, just a relative increase in texting.  Which is logical, since texting DID NOT EXIST until quite recently lol.  Smartphones are so last century.  People are starting to carry supercomputers in their phones.  The future is geniusphones.  For fuck's sake, speak up Siri!

The last 2 bits were very interesting since I have a Blackberry, and just upgraded from a 9000...

Now I said I didn't want to get dragged into quoting inane facts, and I won't.  Instead of quoting reams of contradicting nonsense, I will go with a statement that is clean and simple, and show you how common sense & knowledge is at least as reasonable as quoting second-hand 'facts':

The human body contains a huge electrical system.  Physio-therapists use electrical currents to stimulate muscles.  Sometimes, we kill people by electrocuting them.  Electrical systems can be affected by eletromagenetic (ionizing or not) radiation.  Put your phone next to your computer speakers and call yourself (you will hear the distinct chugga-chugga of the GSM or CDMA network calling for baby).  Try it with a text - same thing.  You can cook meat with electical currents and EM radiation.  Have a look at the prisoner after the deed is done, or cook up a dog on the 'radar-range'.  Microwaves are basically big cell phones you can't talk on.  We are made of meat.  All of this is verifiable with your own senses, and you don't need a fucking PHD to tell you what you are witnessing.

I don't mean to be a bitch, but facts in this case are a distraction from common sense.  Steve Jobs was even smarter than that - he got people hooked on bullshit like 'lifestyle' and 'life on the go', and they forgot that they were handing their children loaded guns and initiating a class war with the underpriviledged, who will one day rise up and demand blood or state-provided geniusphones.


Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Agent Lemon on October 10, 2011, 05:18:54 pm
I guess you could say it's common sense that cell phones, by their nature, increase the risk of cancer at least somewhat,  but the size of the risk is unclear(to me, at least). I would wager that driving your car for an hour everyday would be a lot riskier than having your phone in your pocket. My point is that there is risk involved in everything we do, but we still do these things because they increase our productivity/convenience/enjoyment/whatever. If you don't think the risk is worth it, fine, you can act accordingly. If you think other people are underestimating the risk then you can work to make them more aware of these matters(which you seem to be doing). But I'm not sure what the implication is of what you are saying. Do you want to ban cell phones or restrict their use? If so, then I cannot agree. The only acceptable solution to me is to allow individuals make their own choices, while continually raising awareness about any potential issues.

Also what about the invention of, say, the car? Would you have oppose that because only rich people could afford it in the beginning, and this would be "class warfare"?

P.S. I thought of this thread today and decided to turn my phone off in class instead of burritos it on silent in my pocket. You may just have saved my life :)

P.S.S. When I was 12 I was one of the only kids in my class who didn't have a cell phone, and this was several years before the iphone came out, so I'm not sure you can really attribute cell phone usage by kids to Steve Jobs.
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Brian on October 10, 2011, 10:28:33 pm
It seems to me you are actualy more angry about the whole i-lifestyle then anything else...
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Buck Turgidson on October 11, 2011, 03:28:24 am
Agent Lemon, you present an argument I can sink my teeth into, and will be harder to beat because it is a sound counter.

The car analogy sucks because minimum age requirements are set by law - you know, because it is a danger.  Same for tobacco.  Same for guns, explosives, fireworks - basically anything that's fun. 

With regards to class warfare, the car did cause a lot of class division - the answer was mass transit, a perennially money losing enterprise that had to be put in place to placate the masses, and allow them options outside of factory-neighbourhood ghettos - mass transit is subsidised by the state everywhere.  In a world where you cannot move you are at a huge disadvantage - and in an age like ours, not having the means to communicate & access the internet wherever you are is a worse one.  Increasing productivity is a worthwhile pursuit, and if the risk to health is reasonable, then leave it to the consumer.  But cell phones certainly represent a serious risk to kids whose cell division it at its height (look at the project in Japan to send seniors into the Fukushima zone for cleanup duty - they withstand radiation much better because their cell division process has slowed to a crawl).

I am not advocating giving up cell phones - they are an integral part of life.  Incidentally if EM fields were a concern, then we would have to give up electricity (can you imagine if it turned out that electricity was responsible for cancer - how would we react?).  We are already bombarded by radio waves from wi-fi, cell phones, TV, Radio...etc.

What I am saying is that Steve Jobs was an ass, and the world is better without him.  Brian got me right - I am upset about i-life...etc.  It meant the popularisation of useless shit, getting into bed with record companies, creating a cliquish social strata based around a hardware/software ecosystem, and propelling a dogma where you are either with Apple or against them - and it cannot be reasoned with.  They call their salespeople 'Apple Geniuses' and have all of their followers thinking they are 'creative' when they are just mindless cattle consuming whatever they are fed. 

Since I have already eaten crow for comparing Jobs to Hitler, I will continue down that path - like the Nazis, Apple:

- created new economic principles (ref Goebbels unpegging the Mark from the gold standard, apps as the primary revenue driver)
- invented new titles for their people
- held themselves and their followers to be superior to the general public (Master race/i-life)
- spent a huge amount on marketing (the Nazis actually created a Ministry of Propaganda)
- fuelled a dogma that could not be reasoned with
- created a fanatical following
- invaded privacy
- tried to take over the world
- made their followers suffer whether they understood it or not

In the end analysis, funny enough, the Nazis did win the war though.  All western currencies are now unpegged from the gold standard and base the value on GDP, all have ministry of information / CNN / BBC..etc, jet and swept wing technology came from them, the US would never have made it to the moon on Goddart's research alone, and medical science took a leap forward based on their horrible research.  In fact they even managed to get their conquerors to fight for them against the Bolshevik...great propaganda & spin.

Ok I am starting to realize that I am a little insane, but I don't see anyone else out on this limb, and it's the only place I can get good reception.
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Brian on October 11, 2011, 08:55:10 pm
you know, plenty of other horrible fads are created making people think they are better then everyone simply because they 'belong' to a group. Most of them are created by our own social "peers" aka, people who are cooler then us.

hipsters is the newest one.
Quote
I'm an emo kid, non-conforming as can be
You'd be non-conforming too if
You looked just like me

also, seriously, could we please stop comparing apple to Hitler? you do realize that Hitler killed 11million Jews just because they were Jews. Sure, Steve jobs might have inadvertently given people cancer, And yeah, he was an ass. But cancer in no way shape or form is even close to sending people to poison showers after working them literally to death digging their own mass grave. so, yeah. give Hitler the respect he deserves, jobs isn't even in his ballpark...

protip=this is why people think your crazy btw, the nazi=apple deal
Title: Re: The cult leader is dead! Long live the cult leader!
Post by: Buck Turgidson on October 12, 2011, 02:32:27 am
To be fair I did say they were different in many respects - genocide was the 500lb gorilla that did not need mention (BTW it was 6 million Jews, the rest were Poles, Gypsies, and Homosexuals).

If you think the comparison is unfair, where do you draw the line?  How do you feel about tobacco executives?  Do you think that is a fair comparison?  Since you are so fond of quoting stats, I stoop herewith:

http://www.inforesearchlab.com/smokingdeaths.chtml (http://www.inforesearchlab.com/smokingdeaths.chtml)

What about handgun manufacturers?  Or alcohol?

Steve Jobs died of cancer, and forgive the pun, but it may have been of his own device.