Random Insanity Alliance Forum, Mark V

Cactuar Zone => Random lnsanity => Topic started by: Pterrydactyl on January 12, 2012, 12:46:26 am

Title: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: Pterrydactyl on January 12, 2012, 12:46:26 am: So, I'm talking with my friend about videogames, and he says, "I've never played portal". I ask why, (and offer him a copy) and he says:

"Single player games aren't worth it unless they have multiplayer".

Personally, as a game designer (I have a degree, and have made a few games), I find this opinion is not only offensive, but hurtful. Also, it makes me wonder what effect people who share his opinion have on the gaming industry.

I mean, your going to exclude single-player games because of no multiplayer? WTF?
What about the stories? Videogames, are a modern method of storytelling. They give us a chance to tell a story, and put someone else in the characters shoes. It lets you create a world of pure fiction (Or based in fact), and show people amazing adventures from far-off space battles, to ancient sword-fights. I can't even describe the infinite possibilities of what you can show someone with videogames, and he cares only about multiplayer.

I'm not sure if it's more disheartening that people have that opinion, or that enough of them might have that opinion to effect the market.

Now, I might be dating myself, but when I grew up, we didn't really have multiplayer. A game being good or horrible was based on just the story. Kingdom Hearts for example, had such an amazing story and world behind it, that it broke the age barriers (originally aimed at people under 14) to encompass all ages.

I really just... can't find the words to explain how deeply something like this hurts me.
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: Fake from State Jarm on January 12, 2012, 01:31:55 am: games like WoW brought in a lot of people who are purely social gamers who only got involved because their friends were involved and only see games in social terms, as something to do with other people. You also have people who have never read a book for pure entertainment value and have little interest in film outside of special effects, sex and hype; people who don't have much imagination, or simply have not experienced a game/book/movie with a story that spoke to them on a personal level. Games are adapting to incorporate more of that market so there's probably going to be more of those people than their used to be, playing games, but they'll never destroy the market for games and other art with good narrative in it.
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: C-zom on January 12, 2012, 02:56:46 pm: I value story much more in video games than multiplayer. I prefer horror, adventure and mystery SP games so I might just be biased.
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: Gangs on January 12, 2012, 03:12:17 pm: Im with Pterrydactylhis, mostly.
But when a game like WoW or maybe even TOR comes around, you can't help but love multiplayer.
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: Agent Lemon on January 12, 2012, 04:13:57 pm: I don't see the big deal. It's just personal preference.
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: Pterrydactyl on January 12, 2012, 08:42:41 pm: It's not so much his preference that bothered me, it was more his complete refusal to even be willing to try a game that was more story focused.
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: Electric Mango on January 12, 2012, 09:45:34 pm: I rarely play video games, but when I do, I prefer multiplayer.
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: Fake from State Jarm on January 12, 2012, 09:46:59 pm: well, there are things I won't try. some people just can't afford to pay attention.

/me stares angrily to make sure no one laughs.
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: —- on January 12, 2012, 10:29:01 pm: I'd be speaking from the purely social gamer POV, since that's all CN was for me and atm LoL. Gaming just isn't my thing, I love a good book/movie, and can appreciate a great story, but for me, the story in a game is just holding you back from mashing all the buttons.

I don't mean it to be hurtful, or to sound retarded, but honestly, how often are you sitting at home going through the same story over and over again. You hit A or X or whatever to speed past it. Unless it's the first time, and they force you to know the story so you know what to do. I think the market for stories are for books and movies where they can be enjoyed uninterrupted.
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: Kenneth Kenstar on January 13, 2012, 12:23:34 am: I find trying to play a story focused game with people would be like trying to read a book with someone behind your shoulder watching you read this book.

Sounds like it would be hard to focus and hard to care about what's going on

I used to play things like Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid.

Final Fantasy 3 or 6 or whatever spoilers

Skip to 4:16 for relevancy

Final Fantasy 6 - Celes' Suicide (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok6qjPj7O3g#)

Metal Gear Solid 1 spoilers

Skip to 4:20 for relevancy

Metal Gear Solid Part 11 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMii7QMzZVs#)

Now everything sucks.

Metal Gear Solid 1 spoilers again

Skip for 3:45 for relevancy

Metal Gear Solid - Gray Fox Death (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKLc3ZIVxew#ws)

Metal Gear Rising - Revengeance

Fucking everything about this stupid is relevant

Metal Gear Rising Revengeance Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3PXiTCSXIM#ws)

I'm just gonna skip talking about how terrible FF games are now.
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: dester55 on January 13, 2012, 12:35:39 am: i wish they would make a game outside of the MMO and RPG genre longer then 8 hours....i hate buying games with shitty multilayer and a story that can be beat in less then a day
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: Gangs on January 13, 2012, 12:41:55 am: Actually, mods make up for the lack of game time in most new fps's.
People make homebrew missions almost everyday.
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: Thunder Strike on January 13, 2012, 12:51:05 am: I much prefer single player games. For one they are less competitive and addictive which allows me to play them on my terms and in my own time. During my teenage years (and some later years) I spent way too much time gaming online and I now steer away from MMORPG's. I know I would enjoy such games but it would interfer with other aspects of my life. So a nice RPG that takes 50 hours for a play through at around 2 hours a day suits me just fine.
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: Kenneth Kenstar on January 13, 2012, 01:28:46 am: Let's talk about the two Metal Gear Solid clips

Like before the days of special effects in movies, what you lacked in with visuals, you made up for by exploiting emotions. The success of Metal Gear Solid's story wasn't because of Cybernetic Ninjas or giant walking robots. It was because deep down, we cared about Snake. We wanted to see him succeed.

We thought Snake was cool. Total badass.

But, it was beyond thinking he was cool that made us care about him. We understood Snake.

The creators of the game spent a lot of time finding ways to blend our senses with Snake's senses. Through the torture to the massage, we physically felt part of those experiences. And from the strange mind games the game would play with you, we felt a sense of connection to the world and main character.

The game literally broke the fourth wall many times for the sole purpose of making you, the player, Snake.

So, then Twin Snakes comes along. A remake.

Let's not even talk about the relatively awful voice acting or stupid turning Metal Gear Solid into the Matrix crap.

Look at that scene when Snake and Fox talk in Twin Snakes. It's so...soul less. And awkward. The way they are standing across from each other and talking to each other looks so fake and not human. It looks like robots.

How the hell can this be?

How can a gritty, ugly game like the original Metal Gear Solid look and feel more realistic than (at the time) cutting edge graphics?

Snake barely even has a face.

The answer is atmosphere.

The original game's most over the top moment is probably every time Liquid survived some crazy shit. The Cyborg Ninja was believable because it didn't break out stupid movie special effect crap like oxet time. It was just powerful armor that allowed this guy to jump high and be fast. He didn't move around oxets.

Here's a cutscene in Twin Snakes where Snake sideflips over a doorframe to get to the other side of the door.

Metal Gear Solid The Twin Snakes pt 25 Inputting the First Pal Card (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQEOSu-hkPM#)

I really have to wonder about the mentality of these creepers coming up with this scene.

"Shit, we haven't had Snake bounce off a rocket in like ten minutes, better have him flip or some shit - else these stupid kids will get bored"

Fuck you

Twin Snakes is a perfect example altogether of how everything sucks now. They took the exact same storyline with the exact same characters and mostly the same voice actors and made something completely fucked up and different.

They alienated the player and Snake himself because they wanted to have oxet time and stuff going on.

I really wish people would start making PS1 or N64 games again. Now that gamers debate on stupid shit like which version of the game has more HDs, there really isn't anything left to imagination anymore. And, if there isn't anything left to imagination, there is no reason for me to use my brain when I play this crap.

If my brain doesn't care, I'm not gonna care.

I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but one more time.

Metal Gear Solid Part 11 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMii7QMzZVs#)

At the 7:38 mark

As the Cyborg Ninja lays dying under the foot of a monster, he tells you - Snake - the player, his last words. The sum of his life and passion.

He says good bye.

Then a slow motion effect is used. It might the only time in this version of the game that we see this happen.

But, the slow motion effect wasn't used to show off the graphics.

It wasn't meant to awe us with the action.

No, it was meant for you to realize Fox was going to die.

It was to simulate what it would feel like to watch someone you care about die in front of you. A sense of something happening in front of us that we would watch in slow motion, but with no power to change what will happen. Like watching a car wreck about to happen or a sense of time stopping when seeing something dreadful.

It was meant to enrage and hurt you.
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: Croix on January 13, 2012, 05:04:38 am: ...I used to want twin snakes, but now I don't. I'll just stick to my ps1 version >_>
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: Alfred von Tirpitz on January 13, 2012, 07:29:14 am: As someone who does not really play online, i like single player games that can keep me engrossed. Maybe that is why i prefer rpg-esque games to FPS games. More to get involved with. Ofter it is the "non gaming" bits in the games that hold me to the game the longest.

If anyone here played a game called Lost Odyssey and remembers the "dreams" and how they were handled in the game, you would get some idea of what i am talking about.
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: Cashflow on January 13, 2012, 08:51:24 am: I find that single player games seem to lean more towards people with a selfsentered personality, but of course that's just from my own personal experience. I've always prefered Multiplayer.
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: Pterrydactyl on January 13, 2012, 03:22:14 pm: I like singleplayer because of the story. I mean, Yes, it's the same story each time, but that doesn't make it any less good. In reality, the only game I ignored the story on successive playthroughs, is Metal Gear solid 4 because FUCK THAT. 40+ hours of cutscene? I mean, at one point you literally put the controller down for 2 hours while it explains WHY everything is so fucked.

Beyond that, I feel like playing through a game to repeat the story is like watching a good movie over.

I can't even count the number of times I've replayed Ace Combat 5 just for choppers dramatic death scene.
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: Cashflow on January 13, 2012, 06:22:50 pm: Would you call Runescape a story focused game? why is it called a MMORPG when you have to accomplish tasks by yourself ? I played that over 10 years ago and got bored after killing the dragon and using my autominer.
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: undiscoveredbum on January 14, 2012, 01:42:12 am: I stopped reading this topic when MGS Rising was mentioned.

Then I had to go buy a new keyboard. But my rage is now under control so here I am again.
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: undiscoveredbum on January 14, 2012, 01:54:00 am: Quote from: Pterrydactyl on January 13, 2012, 03:22:14 pm
I like singleplayer because of the story. I mean, Yes, it's the same story each time, but that doesn't make it any less good. In reality, the only game I ignored the story on successive playthroughs, is Metal Gear solid 4 because FUCK THAT. 40+ hours of cutscene? I mean, at one point you literally put the controller down for 2 hours while it explains WHY everything is so fucked.

It's more like 9ish hours of cutscenes but eh. And I enjoyed every goddamn second of it by the way.
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: morrison on January 14, 2012, 01:01:30 pm: I prefer story much more. Multiplayer of games are just gimmicks coming with the game, unless the game is based on beign a pure multiplayer gaae(like super smash brothers ior mario party.
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: Fake from State Jarm on January 14, 2012, 04:06:06 pm: Some games are so plot-oriented they've even got a storyline in their advertisements.

Action 52 Cheetah Men Commercial.avi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWXOQD-VAmY#)

This one even has some voice work by sylvester stallone.

edit: and cheech marin?
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: Alfred von Tirpitz on January 15, 2012, 09:10:52 am: Sometimes multiplayer seems like a cop out. Its like .. "we cant be arsed to give you a good story or a campaign apart from go here and shoot everyone, but we can give you a place you can go and shoot everything in the face with your n00btube!! how rich is that!!!"
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: Jenne on January 15, 2012, 10:22:19 am: I am way to old for this topic, but when I was a young multiplayer meant the guy sitting next to you. This is the only thing i do in a true multi player setting. I've tried playing Madden online, but you always get some fucktard who is getting his ass kicked and decides to quit, or pause to go take a shit in the 4th quarter, so I stopped trying. I don't really like people enough to want to be in some shitty virtual world interacting with them. If I want to deal with the social freaks of the world, I'll just go to Walmart.

Back in college, we used to play Quake II death matches during lunch. I enjoyed that, but it was with people I knew. I don't think it would be nearly as much fun with random people. I really only play two types of games now. Sports/Racing games and the Grand Theft Auto type free form do what you want but eventually follow the story games.
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: Locke on January 15, 2012, 03:10:26 pm: I like both for their own merits, but I do prefer multi-player. Multi-player is more dynamic and isn't dependent solely on AI, which means it's more different from game to game and thus holds my interest longer. As an example, Monster Hunter Tri. I loved that game, but played it primarily in multi-player. Having 3 other (usually intelligent) hunters with you against more difficult enemies was much more fun. The single-player story was decent, but not enough to override how great a team worked. There are certainly multi-player games out there that can a tell a decent story too. Not really interested in WoW-style MMO's myself, but apparently the Old Republic does an excellent job at storytelling.
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: Pterrydactyl on January 15, 2012, 05:04:49 pm: Quote from: undiscoveredbum on January 14, 2012, 01:54:00 am
Quote from: Atonichis775 on January 13, 2012, 03:22:14 pm
I like singleplayer because of the story. I mean, Yes, it's the same story each time, but that doesn't make it any less good. In reality, the only game I ignored the story on successive playthroughs, is Metal Gear solid 4 because FUCK THAT. 40+ hours of cutscene? I mean, at one point you literally put the controller down for 2 hours while it explains WHY everything is so fucked.

It's more like 9ish hours of cutscenes but eh. And I enjoyed every goddamn second of it by the way.

So did I, the first two or three times I played, and occasionally when I play again. But I do speed-runs, and no-kill runs, and stealth-runs, so I skip the cutscenes alot. My fastest time is a little over 2 hours.

I'm not saying we should abandon our multiplayer, just focus more on story. And probably flog people who refuse to even consider that single-player games are worth player. Limiting yourself like that is like saying the only type of pictures worth looking at are pornography.
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: Kenneth Kenstar on January 15, 2012, 10:09:22 pm: I play single player games in a different mood from multiplayer games.

But, besides Minecraft, I usually play only split screen games.

I'd prefer Mario Kart over Call of Duty.

Any fighting game that doesn't suck is great, but even shitty ones are fun with other people.

A fighting game by yourself is fucking boring.
Title: Re: I don't even know... (Multiplayer more important that story???)
Post by: Pterrydactyl on January 16, 2012, 12:48:26 am: I usually play Battlefield as my main FPS multiplayer game. And that's because it's not just another COD clone, theirs jets, helicopters, and all sorts of vehicles you drive/pilot. Me and my friend will each grab a plane and fly all over the place tearing shit up.