Random Insanity Alliance Forum, Mark V
Cactuar Zone => Random lnsanity => Topic started by: Pterrydactyl on February 02, 2012, 12:29:01 pm
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So, here's the situtation:
My "friend" sort of "cheats" on homework assignments. For example, we had to interview people, and he just made the whole thing up and got an A on it (everyone got A's but he's pumped that he faked it and did). Now, historically, he's been good at "fluffing" papers where he does shit for research and just stretches things he already knows out.
My question is, should I continue to let him do this, or should I say something?
One thing that pisses me off, is that he does this, and occasionally gets higher points on some assignments than I do. I mean, I try actually do the full assignments to get the grades that I do, and it seems that it's under-minded by the fact that he just throws whatever shit he wants into a paper for the same assignment and gets an A.
I guess part of it comes from the fact that he's been "handed" everything pretty much his entire life (in fact, his parents pay his rent), whereas I've worked for everthing I have, so he doesn't really see any reason to not take the easy path. I just don't understand why some people cheat, in the end, they are only cheating themselves.
However, at the same time, he has expressed that he has no interest in moving up in the world. For Example I asked him to remove a video he had me tagged in because I was applying for a job (and he did), but he said he would never want a position where they'd take something simple like a video making someone look stupid seriously.
Now, my issue is that I've tried to live by a specific ethos. Specifically:
Loyalty
Duty
Respect
Selfless service
Honor
Integrity
Personal Courage
And now, I'm conflicted. I feel it questions my integrity to not say something, but at the same time, it questions my loyalty to my friends to say something (this guy is VERY well liked, and I'd lose about half of my IRL friends, plus be stuck with 2 pissed roommates for 8 more months).
Basically, I'm looking for suggestions on what you guys would do in this situation to guide to to either saying something, or what.
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Have a talk with the fellow. I wouldn't want to lose friends over it by say... reporting him, but you could explain your situation to him the way you explained it in your post.
Other than that, I'd say just turn a blind eye to it for the most part, makes life on your end a lot easier, and his grades aren't your grades, you shouldn't compare them.
Bullshitter gonna bullshit.
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I've tried talking to him, nothing ever seems to sink in. This isn't the first time something like this has happened.
About 2 years ago, he wrote a program called "Magic Word" he defends it as a "Remotely launched Secure Screensaver", but basically it's a lockout program. When launched, it stops anything you could try to disable it except typing the password (theres no typebox though). He got it to over-ride explorer and the task manager so it stays on the screen and you can't see them. In fact, he "SOMEHOW" got it to ignore the reset button (unless held for 10 seconds). now, I know generally how he did it, but I'm not going to spend an hour describing the specifics.
Anyway, he put it on the schools network for which we have all the computer locations mapped.
Now, after about a semester of remotly launching it, he made a mistake and it damaged a computer. They brought Microsoft Special Investigators (I shit you not, they have windbreakers and hats that say MSI in the FBI font) and the started an investigation. Now, I only knew about it, because I was a lab monitor at the time and one of the MSI guys let it slip why they were there. I passed this info onto my supervisor, because in our department, everyone knew who made the program, and a LOT of people could get in trouble if he used the program while the MSI guys were there.
Eventually, me and a teacher approached him, and tried to impart just how serious of a situtation it was, and he couldn't stop laughing. He was giggling like a fucking schoolgirl who heard the word "penis". I wasn't even sure we got through to him. Luckily, he did eventually say that he understood how bad it was, and stopped triggering the program.
But, my point is, I'm not sure talking to him will yield results, or even do anything. He seems to take everything as a joke to the point at where we have to ask him if he's being serious when he is serious.
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Then he probably won't change, he's one of those types of people who coast through school with good grades, but ultimately it is a mystery as to why it happened.
That said if he blatantly cheats, not through just bullshitting, I would say report him. maybe do it anonymously?
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Well, he'd never "cheat" like, copy-off someone, or plagerize (though, he has grabbed stuff from the tubes and reworded it). But the fact that he just writes "charming" papers and gets A's baffles me.
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Bullshitting is an art, which he is apparently good at. I am too, though I never use it for papers (only class discussions). If he's good enough at it to get A's, odds are that if he's reported and then confronted by a teacher, he will be able to bullshit his way out. Sadly, and I feel weird telling someone older than me this, the world isn't fair in this regard, and if he's good at it he may well get away with it indefinitely. Talk to people in the business world. There are people who go through their entire lives never actually doing anything useful, just bullshitting, and no one who can inflict consequences ever catches on. If he seems to have no conscience about it, talking to him won't change his mind. You can only wait and see if he gets caught. If he does, and he asks you for help, then you have an issue.
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I agree with everything cynic said, but the end part, the issue
if he asks for help, give it to him, its better than him just bullshitting if he's asking .
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I read the first few lines and from that I think you should just ignore it. Such practices will catch up with him sooner or later. Particularly if he goes to college/uni. No need to nark.
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nice acrostic, spells LoyDuRSHInP
that is my contribution to this thread in its entirety.
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it's LDRSHIP, the core values we were taught in the Army.
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I don't expect you to understand this since you were in the Army, but in real life actual work is not nearly as important as the results. So let him keep going.
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But his results aren't really Results, they are just oxshit...
I guess what bothers me, is not so much the fact he does it, but the fact that "skating" though college seems to be the norm. I mean, I see tons of people waiting till the last minute and turning in shit projects, when I know they could have done better. I just never understand the point doing something if your not going to put your best effort into it.
Also, between Army and College, I had other jobs in the real world, and I'd see people get fired left and right for what he does.
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Like I said, outside of Military life, work isn't as important as the end results, and I can guess none of your jobs were in the corporate world, because you'd see people get away with a lot there.
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it's LDRSHIP, the core values we were taught in the Army.
The core values have the Acronym LDRSHIP
but all the values are for following orders...
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But... science...
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I suppose it'd depend on what field he would be entering. Corporate world, he'd totally get away with it. Maybe get promoted. Scientific world (i.e. academia) he'd get shredded. Liberal arts academia, he's actually on par with most professors (lol liberal arts are just bullshitting).
And no, why help him if he gets caught? He was a dick, he got caught. Why aid and abet?
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i think this whole thing comes down to one quote from you Pterrydactyl...
One thing that pisses me off, is that he does this, and occasionally gets higher points on some assignments than I do. I mean, I try actually do the full assignments to get the grades that I do, and it seems that it's under-minded by the fact that he just throws whatever shit he wants into a paper for the same assignment and gets an A.
few things about this though. Why does it matter to you what grades he gets? its not a competition (unless it actually is in which case crush him like an easily crushed thing.) If this is somehow, not the issue you find most disturbing with his actions, what does it matter to you what another person does with their time?
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Because anyone who was in the army has a mentality of "They're going to be watching my back so they better work as hard as I do."
Which works in Iraq. Not so much in college.
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It's not a competition, more that I put effort into everything I do, and then someone walks past with no effort and people talk about how good his stuff is.
he literally bullshitted his way through his research paper for English, talked about how horrible it was, and his teacher wants to submit it to a contest.
And it's not that "There watching my back, so I have to work hard" because when I was a specialist, I did close to ZERO WORK some days. I just don't understand why someone would be like "I don't try". And I further don't understand how he can get good grades by shitting out badly written essays...
If I decide to take that teaching position I was offered when I get my BA, I'm gonna make sure that noone skates through, and people actually LEARN something.
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If I decide to take that teaching position I was offered when I get my BA, I'm gonna make sure that noone skates through, and people actually LEARN something.
Easier said than done. Many people put more effort into finding ways to avoid work and are fairly clever when it comes to that department.
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Oh, I've got ideas
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I don't see anything particularly wrong with using what you know to fill out a research paper. If he's making shit out of thin air that's one thing, but if he can use his knowledge to build a point, I don't see it being any different than looking up that knowledge to also make a point. Either way, if the point is valid it should be fine. May run afoul of some teachers for not embracing the research angle strongly, but personally all I would care about is if it was well-written and makes a good case. I write a lot, and since it's about news most of the information needs to be sourced to the site I learned it from as a matter of professional ethics. But if it's something I personally experienced or an opinion piece I don't need a source because the ideas come from my own head. Whether it's sourced or not, from my perspective so long as you're honest about your sources it shouldn't matter if the content is original or researched. My best stuff comes from when I just pick a starting point and go at it rather than being constrained to merely re-telling a story someone else has told. But that's just the perspective of a writer and not really applicable to a school situation, I guess.
The self-interviewing thing is a similar issue, but I'm a bit more wary of his tactics there. I can kinda forgive lack of research in a research paper because I think the point should be the paper, not the research, but an interview is an interview. Without making it clear he's putting words in someone's mouth based on his own observations or creating a fictional character for some purpose it does seem disingenuous. I do think that interviewing a fictional character can be interesting though, what work you save in easily being able to guide the flow of the discussion you must make up in building up a believable person that is interesting to listen to and has something to say. It's not like it's not work when done properly, just flat-out lying if he claims it wasn't made up to the teacher.
I think the thing that bothers me most is his attitude. If he can use his head to get around restrictions and put up a product of similar quality to one that doesn't avoid them, it wouldn't be so horrible, but bragging about it to the world like it's something to be proud of just feels wrong. And if he's just putting out shit work and his teachers are too dumb to see it, I'd be more inclined to call attention to it. But I've never been particularly socially aware, or cared much of anything for a social life at school, so that colors my perspective there. The computer thing pisses me off too.
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For papers: He doesn't have to put effort in for people to like his writing. So he should be punished? That doesn't even make sense. He knows how to communicate an idea effectively, which is a skill that sometimes draws on fooling others into thinking you actually care. The point of the class is communication and evaluation of information. So he already has the skills required to pass the course. So what do you want him to learn? If his papers are good, why would he spend more time on them? I suppose I have a harder time understanding since I did about the same thing. I can write a paper at 15 minutes a page, hand it in, get my A (sometimes A-) and leave thinking what a waste of time that was. Last time I edited a paper after the initial draft, I received a B-. Never did that again. Also keep in mind, 'stretching what he knows': unless you are talking about falsifying information, it sounds like analysis of information while using some past knowledge.
He found messing with computers fun: So long as he stopped, it should be all good. Has he tried any other programs out that have caused trouble?
As aforementioned, it doesn't matter what grades he gets; worry about your own. Sure, it might seem 'unfair', but he has found a strategy that works and accomplishes the goals he needs it to. I don't see anything wrong with it. I doubt telling a professor he doesn't try in school will get you far. So long as he hands in a product, no one cares.
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Ok, he BS'd an English paper. Can you think of a way of writing an English paper that isn't all BS? (Again, lol liberal arts)
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Ok, the point of the research paper, was to learn how to write research papers and he researched about 3 total facts, then just spread them across 7 pages with fluff, re-iterations, and increasing his period size.
And yes, I've done the same thing with papers, written them in 15-20 mins, thought they were total shit, handed them in and got an A. What does that say about our education system?
And no, he did not stop messing with the computers. After the MSI agents left, he wrote a new program to mess with them more covertly.
any most of what I was saying, was to give you insight into her personality, not judge his past actions. I am focusing on the current one of cheating on the interview (which he acknowledges is cheating, and defends it by saying he forgot to do the assignment till the last minute)
any the interview wasn't an English interview. It was an interview to be conducted under IRB guidelines for interacting with human subjects in order to prove that we understood the certification process (we got certified through the IRB). Not to mention, it was supposed to be an example of how he will interview our research subjects for our group project in a week or so. I'm stuck with him in my group, but I'm worried that if he makes shit up, it will fuck with out results.
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And no, he did not stop messing with the computers. After the MSI agents left, he wrote a new program to mess with them more covertly.
any most of what I was saying, was to give you insight into her personality, not judge his past actions. I am focusing on the current one of cheating on the interview (which he acknowledges is cheating, and defends it by saying he forgot to do the assignment till the last minute)
is it a he or a her? also, seriously, why do you care what another person does, in prison caring to much about what another person does will get you shanked. dont get shanked!
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Because, his actions have the possibility of effecting me.
If he gets caught and expelled, me and my remaining roommate have to come up with his $500 for his share of rent. Plus, before with the MSI thing, I was one of the lab monitors in a lab the stuff happened in.
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Because, his actions have the possibility of effecting me.
If he gets caught and expelled, me and my remaining roommate have to come up with his $500 for his share of rent. Plus, before with the MSI thing, I was one of the lab monitors in a lab the stuff happened in.
I'm confused here. If you turn him in, then he's definitely not paying his share of the rent, so that's a moot point.
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I read the first few lines and from that I think you should just ignore it. Such practices will catch up with him sooner or later. Particularly if he goes to college/uni. No need to nark.
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Because, his actions have the possibility of effecting me.
If he gets caught and expelled, me and my remaining roommate have to come up with his $500 for his share of rent. Plus, before with the MSI thing, I was one of the lab monitors in a lab the stuff happened in.
So much for your code - you are putting personal loss above integrity.
You should look at the educational value he presents you with: You are in the same classes, and he bullshits, and you don't, but you get the same scores. You will run into this your whole life, so the question is how do you beat this type of person?
Your choices are simple:
1) Asymetrical competition (as you are doing now), in which you try to exemplify the best of what a confused and somewhat malformed sense of integrity can offer, and he bullshits. Sharpen your integrity, and go to the wall to win (and you don't need to rat him out to do that, but should not be refraining because of the rent).
2) Symetrical competition (ie pull him down to your level, or take a leap to his). Then try to beat him at his own game. Or do you know you don't have his gifts, or the power and integrity to bring him down?
I never did well in school, but I never cheated. But I have always been able to conceive strategy, communicate well, form and intelligent argument, execute, and learn from my retarded forays. We all have gifts, and to be successful, we need to press those strengths against opponents' weaknesses whenever it counts. Sometimes facts are needed to get the job done, and sometimes fluff is needed to keep people on task.