Random Insanity Alliance Forum, Mark V
Cactuar Zone => Random lnsanity => Topic started by: Jessy on October 23, 2012, 12:29:55 am
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This is the first of my Alternate History series here on RIA. Here is the question: What if Russia did not sell Alaska? Assuming everything was still the same in the world before this, what do you all think would happen?
I'm curious... :)
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The world would not have been graced by the majestic mind that is Sarah Palin. There is no way Mr Putin would of put up with her nonsense.
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russia would have won the cold war.
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^What Mogar said. The fact that Russia would have been able to set up missile silos in Alaska which would have been able to easily strike the west coast would have pressured the US into being much more careful with their demands. In addition, we would not have access to that vast reserve of oil and other resources, greatly hurting the US in the long term.
Also, we're doing your homework now, aren't we?
EDIT: Forgot to mention that the US policy of forcing democracy in nations with socialist governments may not have been as "effective." So on the one hand, we may have ended up with no Vietnam war, but on the other, you all may have ended up with no Leo.....
wait, this alternate universe sounds appealing.
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My answer is better.
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The world would glow in the dark from all that lovely spent uranium
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@Arsenal 10: Oh damn, thats right... We wouldn't have Sarah Palin. Personally, I don't think she was ready for politics anyways.
@Mogar: That would not be good.
@Leo: That would have sucked... I personally think that Either the US or Canada would have snatched up Alaska during Russia's revolution or Russia's old pre-revolution government would have relocated there creating a Russian version of the Taiwan situation in China. And noooooo. this is not my homework. I have a history class, but we are at world war I right now. :P
@fAILiurestrategist: Yes. Yes it would. :)
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Personally, I don't think she was ready for politics anyways.
That's probably the nicest thing anyone has ever said about her. Most people just say she is a dumb bitch.
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Personally, I don't think she was ready for politics anyways.
That's probably the nicest thing anyone has ever said about her. Most people just say she is a dumb bitch.
Some people say she's hot. Not me, but other people, some other people that are not me.
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I'm going to download hearts of iron now and set up a scenario for this.
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If Russia didn't sell Alaska, they would have gone bankrupt. As a result, the Communist revolution would probably have been precluded by an unsuccessful peasant revolt, and their ranks culled before Marx got across to the Russia intelligentsia.
The Tsar would have been in a stronger position vs his people during WWI, and sustained the war to the end rather that folding in 1917. The Allies would not have had to offer Germany terms, and WWI would indeed have been the war to end wars, and had no sequel. Russia would have acquired German industrial knowhow, and industrialised more gradually, while Germany would have been de-industrialised in order to maintain a balance of power.
Great Britain and Russia would have continued their close association, and pretty much run Europe and most of Asia. The US' isolation would have continued for decades, and they would have had no presence in Europe, no atom bomb, and no cold war. Britain would be running the show, and would not have been forced by Lend-Lease to give up it's colonies.
Llamavore, can you please take up where I left off and give this subject the cerebral input it deserves. Leo is making it about himself again...
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In Soviet Alaska, Deadliest Catch Catches You
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I'm going to download hearts of iron now and set up a scenario for this.
Make a good AAR
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In Soviet Alaska, Deadliest Catch Catches You
POTD for that one.
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@Arsenal 10: That's because I'm nice. Everyone knows that *scoffs conceitedly* :P
No, but seriously, people don't know the truth about her. She wasn't ready.
@Mogar: I want this iron of hearts now :P
@GrilledSlug (1st): What an interesting scenario. Now explain this to me, do YOU think in THIS scenario the United States, Britain, and Japan would have high living standards comparable to today? Would Russia be higher than us? Would Europe and Australia (and New Zealand) still have high standards of living? And finally, would technology progress to the point we have today?? :)
@llamavore: Ha!! Probably. I probably wouldn't go there if it catches me though hehe
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you are having us do your homework aren't you
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Also, we're doing your homework now, aren't we?
you are having us do your homework aren't you
Running out of original ideas, llama? Don't worry, I can emphasize with you, so let me give you some advice on how to deal with it.
Quit now while you're still respectable; the only other routes are to become boring or like me, and neither of those are things you want to be, so leave the game now while you can still say you have respect for yourself.
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Also, we're doing your homework now, aren't we?
you are having us do your homework aren't you
Running out of original ideas, llama? Don't worry, I can emphasize with you, so let me give you some advice on how to deal with it.
Quit now while you're still respectable; the only other routes are to become boring or like me, and neither of those are things you want to be, so burritos the game now while you can still say you have respect for yourself.
lol guess I wasn't paying attention. oh well.
*empathize
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Also, Jessy
Aren't we doing your homework for you now that you are having us do for you now? Are you not?
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Obviously she is having us do her homework, but it is an interesting subject.
United States, Britain, and Japan would have high living standards comparable to today?
Yes. But their debt ratios would be better off, because instead of WWII, the global crisis would be pushed back to 1966, and take the form of US support for other British colonies who want to repatriate their constitutions and chart their own course. As a result of the global conflagaration, which lasts until 1971, the baby boom happens a generation later. The early 1990's become the equivalent of the late 1960's, and a generation of hoppies (instead of the familiar hippies in this universe) choose extasy instead of acid and weed as a way to open their minds - their movement involves a lot of hair brushing and touching things with their finger tips instead of the 'cerebral' nonsense of our own hippies. World population works out to be about the same, driving similar economics, but India remains part of the British Empire, as the limeys brand Ghandi as a 'peace terrorist', and put down potential rebellion without provoking global indignation but slaughtering cows every time there is trouble. Clever toothless islanders.
Would Russia be higher than us?
Given all the extasy going around in the west, I would have to say no. In fact, it is very hard to get your hands on anything in Russia. The Czar, Emperor Vladimir Putin, runs the place like he owns it, arbitrarily arresting people for criticizing him. Russians themselves accept things as they are, roundly agreeing that they need a 'strongman' like him as the leader. He makes forrays into capitalism, and lets a few businessmen make a fortune and grow in power until he changes his mind, and strips them of everything they have and puts them in jail on trumped up charges. He goes hunting, and has a national magazine photographer take shirtless sexy photos of him to attract courtesans from Chiang-Kai-Shek III court to his lair.
Would Europe and Australia (and New Zealand) still have high standards of living?
Europe would not - internecine violence and old money make poor bedfellows. The EU does not rise, and with Germany rendered an agrarian wasteland, France, the UK, Italy, and Spain vie for dominance. Other powers are content to let the Europeans continue to divide and rule themselves.
Australia still has high standards of living, but is under pressure from Greater China, which, following a more agressive interpretation of the '3 island-chain' strategy, has outright conquered Korea, Vietnam, as well as key islands from Malaysia and Indonesia, where they are able to leverage a large Chinese ethnic population. Australia therefore spends an inordinate amount of its GDP on its navy, and works with the US to contain Chinese imperial ambitions. New Zealand, as always, is given only a nodding acknowledgment of being on the same planet.
And finally, would technology progress to the point we have today??
No. Without the pressure of a cataclysmic war in Europe, and the extermination of the Jewish population, a young Albert Einstein does not emigrate to the US in 1933, and instead follows in his father's footsteps, and becomes an accomplished electrical engineer. There would be no Mahattan Project anyway, as there is no WWII, and no V2 (Braun goes into rockets, but without the funding of a major war, instead builds a model rocket empire and fireworks factory), so the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo programs never take place, leaving us a world without Teflon.
One last thing - Kennedy doesn't get shot, but nor does he get elected due to a simple prejudice. In this universe, 'chowda' is a colloquial term for blowjob. When he invites his opponent, Nixon, to a clam chowder lunch, Nixon, every the Machiavellian, twist the invitation into a public outrage, and activates the Catholic vote outside the Boston area. He win the election, and America prospers. The Dead Kennedys go with and alternate name, the Mellow Muffins, and fail to attract the scorn of Tipper Gore.
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Also, we're doing your homework now, aren't we?
you are having us do your homework aren't you
Running out of original ideas, llama? Don't worry, I can emphasize with you, so let me give you some advice on how to deal with it.
Quit now while you're still respectable; the only other routes are to become boring or like me, and neither of those are things you want to be, so burritos the game now while you can still say you have respect for yourself.
lol guess I wasn't paying attention. oh well.
*empathize
No, I meant emphasize.
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@llamavore: Actually no! Let me explain :D
We had a class assignment (wait!!). The assignment was to make a history scenario that would have a profound change in today's world. My group chose a particularly a hard topic - what if U.S. Civil War was won by the South? < < < That one was actually really hard. So after I heard all of the other topics and hear my topic (I got an A!), I started to wonder of all these other scenarios. The one about Russia not selling Alaska was one that came through my head.
I though this might be a pretty fun experiment and fun thing to talk about on the forums. Perhaps, one day I could bring this in to Sparta's forums. I think this was a successful experiment since I have gotten some pretty elaborate, interesting, and humorous answers. I want to do more. :)
@GrilledSlug: This is byfar the most complex, complete and most elaborate answer of them all!! I love it!! I love the first and last responses!! haha But now I have more questions...
New Zealand, as always, is given only a nodding acknowledgment of being on the same planet
^ ^ ^ < < < What does this mean for New Zealand? Are they more powerful than what they would be now, or just the same? Would they just be the similar New Zealand they are today?
China. Why would China be so aggressive towards others? (It doesn't surprise me that they would, but in this scenario, why would they go the path of 1930's real world Japan?)
Also, this is alluding to my next topic... What would be of Antarctica today? Would it still be mostly uninhabited or would it be used of its resources from some nation(s)?
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Antarctic would be the same in my opinion. Too harsh for people to effectively mine resources from. Also, New Zealand has always been limited by the size and location of its nation, restricting its ability to expand through conquest/trade/other means.
PS: I'll probably be completely gone from IRC until after next week. I was crazy sick this week since the day we got back to town, and now it turns out that I have 4 tests plus other stuff next week to keep me insanely busy.
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New Zealand - Leo's has it dead on. Location and size makes them a remote market. The fact that there is no oil doesn't help either. Their best hope for increased importance in the world is to resurrect the Dodo and start a unique petting zoo.
China - unconstrained by US power, China eventually defeats Japan in 1952 - 800 years later, the Divine Wind blows the other way. By this point, they have pushed out the Brits (Boxer rebellion), and a second nascent industrial power. In possession of Japan's industrial base, and with the resources to expand it, they industrialize more quickly, soon dominating the world camera and electronics markets. That technology makes its way into their military, which is unconstrained from agressive action like the Japanese in our Universe. Interestingly, the next shore for them is Alaska, so the US' rise to superpowerdom doesn't happen until...oh I think I am drifting off topic.
Antarctica - frustrated by defeat in the Falklands in this scenario too, Argentina invades Antarctica, also claiming it as part of the Malvinas. Coming to the defence of the Emperor Penguin, a substantial flight of Guillemots fly non-stop and come to the defence of their kin, sending the Argentines reeling a second time.
While proving that they can defeat the Argentines in battle does not prove sentience, the world suddenly comes to respect Penguin-kind more deeply. This doesn't work out too well for the Penguins, as it provokes fear, and the world opts to crush them by polluting the atmosphere, slowly destroying their habitat. Until they are all dead. And New Zealand resurrects them as a new exhibit in their waning petting zoo.
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China - unconstrained by US power, China eventually defeats Japan in 1952 - 800 years later, the Divine Wind blows the other way. By this point, they have pushed out the Brits (Boxer rebellion), and a second nascent industrial power. In possession of Japan's industrial base, and with the resources to expand it, they industrialize more quickly, soon dominating the world camera and electronics markets. That technology makes its way into their military, which is unconstrained from agressive action like the Japanese in our Universe. Interestingly, the next shore for them is Alaska, so the US' rise to superpowerdom doesn't happen until...oh I think I am drifting off topic.
Don't forget that Japan invaded China during WWII and was only held back by the US. China still hasn't forgiven Japan for what happened during the war ("Rape of Nanjing" being a famous example). Also, Japan's geography and location make it a challenge to invade, the reason they were isolated from the West for so long (until a US naval ship arrived one day).
Antarctica - frustrated by defeat in the Falklands in this scenario too, Argentina invades Antarctica, also claiming it as part of the Malvinas. Coming to the defence of the Emperor Penguin, a substantial flight of Guillemots fly non-stop and come to the defence of their kin, sending the Argentines reeling a second time.
While proving that they can defeat the Argentines in battle does not prove sentience, the world suddenly comes to respect Penguin-kind more deeply. This doesn't work out too well for the Penguins, as it provokes fear, and the world opts to crush them by polluting the atmosphere, slowly destroying their habitat. Until they are all dead. And New Zealand resurrects them as a new exhibit in their waning petting zoo.
Argentina has never owned the Falklands, but I'll ignore that for your broader points. In addition to penguins, Argentina would face competition from its neighbors. Chile already claims a piece of the Antarctic and is feisty when it comes to these sorts of things. As a Chilean, I wouldn't be surprised to see the country hand out guns to the penguins (a mistake that would bite back in 2065 when South America is then taken over by the cute little things). Also, koalas, they're awesome and have nothing to do with this but they're awesome.
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On that point we differ, sir. Koalas are nature's ass holes.
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On that point we differ, sir. Koalas are nature's ass holes.
YOU TAKE THAT BACK!!!! Koalas are furry and cuddly and all sorts of awesome-sauce. They're like cute midgets but with claws and baby pouches that make them mini kangaroos without the accent.
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On that point we differ, sir. Koalas are nature's ass holes.
YOU TAKE THAT BACK!!!! Koalas are furry and cuddly and all sorts of awesome-sauce. They're like cute midgets but with claws and baby pouches that make them mini kangaroos without the accent.
Fine, we do agree. They do make an awesome sauce. Also, crunchy Koala spread is great in the morning.
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You little fucker. When the cops find your dead body, they'll know who was capable of such atrocities as those I shall inflict on someone who dares harm the sacred koala.
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I remember watching a Alternative History series called CSA.
It was told through commercials like this:
Darky Toothpaste (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQI9HGV9uhw#)
(This actually exists, btw. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darlie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darlie))
Here is the whole video
The Confederate States of America (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJJtH_5vcmM#)
It basically implies that the Confederate States of America never found soul music and black people left for better countries. This leads to the country being boring as hell. (Not even joking)
The video is kinda stupid, honestly. Some interesting points though.
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You little fucker. When the cops find your dead body, they'll know who was capable of such atrocities as those I shall inflict on someone who dares harm the sacred koala.
Are you THREATENING me, sir? Get back up your tree you Koala-hugging, monkey-like, dirty, smelly, hippie. Your 'passion' for the little creatures is obviously a ploy to get women to find you attractive - it is the kind of underhanded, subverted, perverse behavior I expect from a communist. Are you a communist, sir? I'll have you know that I love Koalas too - they make great shoes. Of course it takes each one a lifetime to make just one...
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It's not a threat, it's a prediction of your future.
And I refuse to comment on the veracity of the rest of your statement other than to say that where you're going, you won't need shoes.
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Oh, so now you're a fortune teller? You aren't threatening me because you're using magic? There you have it: the koala lover is also a warlock. Are you the evil kind, or the type that just changes its shade once it falls off the cliff?
Not that I am predicting the future or anything.
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I'm the kind that bashes your knees in with a lead pipe and then proceeds to fuck you up using thumbtacks.
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I see, Gandalf the Kinky. But you started telling us that you find koalas awesome, but did not say what exactly piques your interest in them. Do elucidate, dear chap.
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On that point we differ, sir. Koalas are nature's ass holes.
YOU TAKE THAT BACK!!!! Koalas are furry and cuddly and all sorts of awesome-sauce. They're like cute midgets but with claws and baby pouches that make them mini kangaroos without the accent.
I believe I already answered that.
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Who says they don't have an accent? Have you ever even MET a koala? Have you been watching cartoons?
And here I was taking you seriously.
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I am a koala.
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Do you have a
matching twin sibling?
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Yes.
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Let's have a party. I want to show the two of you my new club.